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Rule 28 - Sailing the Course RC Protests |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Topic: Rule 28 - Sailing the Course RC Protests Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 12:19pm |
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We had this issue a few years ago; we now have the following SI Boats observed by the Race
Committee to have not sailed the correct course will be scored DSQ without the
need to protest. Boats may seek redress from this action. This amends RRS 63.1
& Appendix A Hopefully Brass will not pull this apart
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Happily living in the past
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 12:38pm | |
I'm glad you raise this. There's an interesting logic. I hope we would agree that if Boat A, observing Boat B infringe Rule 28, needs to hail protest at the time. (Let's not get into the whole debate about levels of aggression associated with the 'P' word). This then gives the other boat an opportunity to rectify the error. I also hope we would agree that if it could be proved (so I think we're in theoretical space - unless Boat A admitted it) that Boat A made no attempt to inform Boat B, then there would be a problem with the validity of the Protest. Now take the first situation, delete Boat A and insert 'Patrol Boat'. There was a generally held view in the Rules Observance topic that we need to be careful about elements of the RC interfering. But that seems an odd logic in this context since it removes the opportunity for Boat B to correct its error. It also seems a little strange that there isn't a requirement on the RC to inform.....
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 12:40pm | |
Ah yes I remember that problem as I grew up racing at your club....I'm pretty sure I can even remember a protest/request for redress about it....but 25 years later its probably faded from corporate memory.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 6:24pm | |
How often does a boat gain by sailing the wrong course? Usually it seems that one merrily sails off to the wrong mark, only to have to come back when someone joyfully informs you of that. Never have I thought of it as a "protest" situation.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 8:03pm | |
Telling somebody they are sailing for the wrong mark is usually a mark of sportsmanship (tempered with a little smugness).
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 10:00pm | |
Not disagreeing with that. But to self police it if Boat B do the right thing then you have to have a valid protest. Which means you have to tell. Yet we seem to have a view that the RC can’t tell but can protest
Edited by sargesail - 23 Oct 17 at 10:03pm |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 17 at 10:29pm | |
Can't see how RC can tell wrong way boat anything other than they are sailing wrong course ?
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 8:06am | |
But what if they tell one boat, but not another? Hardly fair.
Pretty sure I've given in to the temptation of shouting "you are going the wrong way" several times when standing in the race box, thinking back. I think I need to learn to keep my mouth shut, though. I've given people a race course, I need to let them use it. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 8:43am | |
But that's exactly what I'm getting at. To be able to take action against Boat B who is sailing the wrong course Boat A would need to have told Boat B with a minimum (but not necessarily 'sportsmanlike' hail of protest.
Yet the RC can take action without warning a boat...in fact there seems to be a view that it shouldn't/mustn't....because that might not be fair to all. I'm not sure that the latter is a logical position.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 8:57am | |
Correct. Rule Rule: 28.2" data-url="/rules/649?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">28.2, Sailing the Course Rule Rule: 31" data-url="/rules/669?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">31, Touching a Mark Rule Rule: A5" data-url="/rules/762?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">A5, Scores Determined by the Race Committee If a boat makes an error under rule 28.2 or breaks rule 31 at the finishing line and finishes without correcting her error or taking a penalty, she must be scored points for the place in which she finished. She can only be penalized for breaking rule 28.2 or rule 31 if she is protested and the protest committee decides that she broke the rule. |
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