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Endeavour 2017: Prediction thread

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Poll Question: Who will win the 2017 endeavour
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
8 [33.33%]
6 [25.00%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
3 [12.50%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 1:48pm
Sorry Cirrus, my point was never about the sailjuice series. 
Originally posted by mozzy

The difficult thing is getting an incentive to race. Most those classes people have good competition within. How you entice the top sailors from each to turn up to an event where they may get unfairly beaten on handicap?

We were talking about formats for the endeavour I thought, and iGRF suggested a series of events held in banded handicaps 'formulas'.  I don't think top sailors would choose handicap racing during the summer season whilst they have class opens and championships on offer.

As you rightly point out Sail Juice is a winter series and held outside the traditional sailing season so not in competition with class championships. 

Or are you saying that sail juice is a legitimate way to look at correct handicaps because it attracts top sailors? 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 2:02pm
The 5,000 would certainly help you find a few entrants!  

Originally posted by iGRF

Then the savvy ones would soon flush out the Bandit boats I bet.
 
Specifically, how? If you attracted the top boat from each class with your 5k, how would you then calculate handicaps? 

The Great Lakes have used a large(ish) sample size to calculate handicaps aimed at identifying the better sailors on large lakes. They admit it isn't perfect. But it serves a purpose for a fun series bringing the dinghy community together through the winter months. 

Hold those events in the summer when they are competing with class racing, and you'd soon struggle to attract as many top sailors. 


Edited by mozzy - 24 Oct 17 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 3:00pm
The plan was, not to just run a series to the current system, it was to trial a new system based along the lines discussed and rejected here, centering the Laser at 1000 and the other handicaps re aligned, the idea was also to launch a new 'Class' for handicap racers to belong to and possibly come together to manage their own affairs in parallel with the RYA. Such a group would need a series of events to prove any changes, but first they would need some level of financial support to get the whole thing off the ground.

As to how to flush out Bandits ask yourself* if you were going for the 5 grand in that series which boat would you select from that list based on the boats current handicap rating?


*Not saying your a bandit helm just suggesting you think about which of those boats has the best chance
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 3:28pm
LOL if anyone moves class for the event, take five points of it's handicap! That would be great! 

I think there is a lot to be said for grouping types of boats together to get better handicapping. And grouping sailing venues together to. Or even grouping standards of sailors. However, I don't think you'll ever be able to get to a resolution desirable to determining a 'champions of champions'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 3:45pm
Something 'new'  ? ... Get real guys - it is not going to happen any time soon is it !   Might be worth seeing for yourselves what IS out there now - even if that means 'trying something new' (to you) that is well supported and leaving that keyboard to cool off for a while.

If you don't even get along yourselves to the current SJ series etc yourselves what makes your think there is real demand for something different for a (not) novel new series ? 

Anyway - we can leave you speculating I guess as it is not likely you are really going to join in.  But why not simply come along to the first SJ series event at Draycote in November ... even if just to watch and see how real success is organised - handicap system and all.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 4:05pm
I wasn't proposing changing the format of the endeavour to anything new; so I hope you're not grouping me in with that. I think if anything the publicity for the endeavour needs to be worked on. 

However, it is a dinghy forum, I don't see any harm in discussing the development of formats of dinghy events. 

As for the SJ series I've done several of the events before, the draw was always the social though, but this was before they changed the handicaps. But I typically don't sail in the winter now. If I had to sail in the cold, it would be at one of the SJ events, probably. 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 7:01pm
.... before they changed the handicaps

What on earth is wrong with the GL handicaps ?   They have proved to be a lot closer to an 'ideal' than the 'raw' PY ones.... which is exactly why they have become so widely used.     
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

.... before they changed the handicapsWhat on earth is wrong with the GL handicaps ?
Typical puddle sailor talking to a sea sailor.

What is wrong with the Great lakes handicaps?

Other than they are developed on wide area flat fresh water with no waves, no currents, where fast boats get to be faster and certainslow boats likely to produce high entries get their handicaps improved...

Nothing, nothing at all - Not.

Edited by iGRF - 24 Oct 17 at 7:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 8:27pm
They seem fine Cirrus for what they're trying to do. I only mentioned that I had done the events before the work on them which you seemed to be referencing in your other posts.

I have nothing against SJ or great lakes. We're talking about format for the Endeavour and my point to iGRF was that you'd struggle to get top sailors attending if it were a handicap series held through the main season, no matter what you to the handicaps.


Edited by mozzy - 24 Oct 17 at 9:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 17 at 9:42pm
GRFi .....

The GL system works very well on the sea as well ...  just like the 'Portsmouth' system (believed still to be a sea location last time I checked) is applicable in many places inland.   These are just names after all ! 

There are plenty of examples of GL number use well beyond those large inland bits of water on the salty stuff - they are after all only modified PY numbers anyway.   (Yes yes .... I do appreciate there are very few large lakes in your banjo playing end of Kent).  

You don't like the modified GL numbers based on previous missives to us poor plebs here so are we to assume you are a revisionist fan of the PY ones now ?   .... Oh I forgot .... you no doubt would prefer your OWN (to be developed) version of course.   Wink 

Yes - I know I'm just rattling his cage ....


Edited by Cirrus - 24 Oct 17 at 9:43pm
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