Outhaul on a run -- tight or loose?

Bear in mind we are talking specifically about a dead run here.....
When skin friction is the major drag factor (i.e. in a drifter) plate up does reduce the wetted area quite considerably, as does sitting well forward and heeling to leeward to lift the aft planing sections of the hull clear.

Raking the board only changes the effective chord but I'm with you on up or down, the only time on Raceboards I'd rake was to control railing upwind in a blow. Boats are a bit different I think and, as speeds are usually lower, maybe the effect of rake on balance outweighs the other effects? I'll use half board on the Blaze off wind and lift the daggerboard on the Spice when overpowered to help keep the boat flat.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 05 Oct 17 at 4:39pm

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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Outhaul on a run -- tight or loose? Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 4:36pm
	Bear in mind we are talking specifically about a dead run here..... When skin friction is the major drag factor (i.e. in a drifter) plate up does reduce the wetted area quite considerably, as does sitting well forward and heeling to leeward to lift the aft planing sections of the hull clear. Raking the board only changes the effective chord but I'm with you on up or down, the only time on Raceboards I'd rake was to control railing upwind in a blow. Boats are a bit different I think and, as speeds are usually lower, maybe the effect of rake on balance outweighs the other effects? I'll use half board on the Blaze off wind and lift the daggerboard on the Spice when overpowered to help keep the boat flat. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 05 Oct 17 at 4:39pm
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 4:48pm
	Well the logic for boards was dump it completely when windy as it gets in the way of planing, but if there isn't enough to plane, you kind of need it to pull against when you're, ahem, 'helping' the flow attach and re-attach to the sail. But on say a Laser and I'd be the last person to ask, but surely if it's iffy and you're sailing downwind don't you need the resistance the plate gives to ensure the rig is performing if you have to sail an angle, I realise they sail by the lee a lot, but even then if it's marginal, don't they need some plate? Edited by iGRF - 05 Oct 17 at 4:49pm
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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 6:13pm
	Yup, not planing then board right down all the way round but we did indulge in what the dinghy bods would refer to as "unlimited kinetics"..... I think L@sers are impossible to sail without some plate, the Spice certainly is. Plus it if's up much more than halfway you can't gybe as it gets in the way of the kicker (then you capsize). Edited by Sam.Spoons - 05 Oct 17 at 6:14pm
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 6:18pm
	It depends if you have a centreboard or daggerboard. Lifting a daggerboard does not change it's section so it's quite a viable option. In every boat with a daggerboard I've lifted it, but for different reasons. In toppers and laser I lift it on reaches and downwind, as you bear away the leeway reduces and you sit in. The leeway is equal to how much you're hiking. So the more you sit in, the higher the plate should be. Having it down just increases skin friction. However, you still need to keep a little down just to enable steerage. In a skiff you're 'full' hiking pretty much around the course so you leave it down all the time to reduce leeway. You can also lift the plate to depower. Having too much plate in the breeze causes the boat to 'trip' up a bit when gusts hit. Plus, as you go faster you don't need as much plate to create the same lift. In the 200 with a centreboard, I agree with iGRF. Lifting it changes the section. It also moves the plate backwards in the boat which makes the helm feel funny. You also have to move it back quite far before you appreciably reduce the surface area. All of that has led to me leaving the centre board down in the 200. I know a few people lift it in the very light winds on the run.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 6:28pm
	The shape of the hull also makes a difference, leaving the board down in an Ent on a run is a capsize waiting to happen if there's any wind. Half board on reaches and fully up on runs was what I was taught. Of course it's hard to ruin the profile of an Ent foil more than it is by design The Spice copes well with full board until you're getting overpowered so I generally set it for the wind strength and leave it unless it changes.
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

By The Lee Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 06 Aug 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 114	Post Options Post Reply Quote By The Lee Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 8:00pm
	To be fair that is one of the most common mistakes by club laser sailors that they lift the daggerboard to high on a run

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 9:23pm
	Lifting a centreboard 2/3 up also increases longitudinal stability, which seems to stop the boat from broaching or rolling too much on the run. Firefly death rolls are scary things. Board up too much, and there is too little resistance to the roll, too vertical and the balance is all wrong and a broaching she will go. In very light winds, 3/4 up will be ok.
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ColPrice2002 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote ColPrice2002 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 17 at 9:48pm
	The other point is that raising a centreboard will shift the centre of lateral resistance. To turn a dinghy downwind, raise the centreboard (pivot the blade backwards) and it's easy to turn downwind as well as acting more like a long keel design. Just for Rupert - we used to reduce the Firefly death roll by having the crew sit out to leeward, helm to windward and not, emphatically not, to move body position. Ie don't try to keep body upright, roll with the boat. Also, don't try go correct the roll with the rudder! This increased to moment of inertia sufficiently to increase the period of the roll and make it less deadly. Techique was used with the old spoon rudder...

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 17 at 7:51am
	Sprint, Beating, fully tight. Reaching, adjust to suit conditions Running, fully tight. Centre board, short legs, leave it fully down.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 17 at 9:59pm
	Colprice, yes, moving is a deadly sin! Spreading by the weight sideways, but as close as possible fire and aft, pulling the mainsheet in and clenching ones buttocks also helps!
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