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Your Club starts an Adopted Classes Only Policy |
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Oli
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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Topic: Your Club starts an Adopted Classes Only Policy Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 4:34pm |
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sorry ive just joined another club as that sounds rather elitist... why not have it all? a od fleet with active fleet rep who can maintain the class, a handicap fleet who dont conform to the former, and a cruise round the cans fleet who are perhaps new / learning / intimidated by the racing aspect but want to give it a go. nothing wring with banding, it is how you band that can be an issue and lots get it very wrong through pure attachment to whats gone before so must be right'ism. It takes some careful thought and dialogue between classes but you could have real successful "box rule" fleets based on handicap and type. Careful not to dilute too much unless mass exists. how about fast / med / slow py split into asy / sym and further to trap / hike, if you have half a dozen or more of each then produce a separate start, if not move them up a level until there is.
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 4:55pm | ||
Unfortunately it's sport and it's physical. Getting to the right size and strength / flexibility is part of it. Sailing is probably one of the most diverse sport in terms of body shapes and with two handed boats you have a lot of scope to get the ideal weight.
Fine, but when you have more people on duty, or waiting around whilst the other fleets finish / start, then you have a problem.
We had / have this at HISC. I was part of the committee that moved away from just PY banding but more toward the type of course the boats wanted to sail. The problem at HISC is that on regular weekend races we don't have enough boats to justify the splits. Ouside of teh fleets we probably only getting 10 menagerie boats. You end up with a really long start sequence with fleets of 1-2s. Its then a nightmare to keep a track of. Broaden the fleets up and you have people waiting ages between races. To be clear, anyone in any boat would be welcome at my hypothetical club. It's important we give an opportunity for new boats and new people to enter the sport. I think providing one start for 'all comers' is all the opportunity needed and a decent boat with enthusiasm will grow it from there. They can make it what they wish be recording results, agreeing box rules informally off the water. Once they have decent groundswell of support, the club can formalise it and new fleet is born; no need for a committee to second guess and grade. Edited by mozzy - 09 Oct 17 at 5:02pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6648 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 5:12pm | ||
I think the poll demonstrates that any club that set out to treat some of its members as second class citizens will speedily find that those folk cease to be members at all.
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 5:55pm | ||
My club runs fleet in with Handicap odd jobs, one start, fleet gets its result and also its handicap result, one OOD two on safety, small lake.
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 6:06pm | ||
As someone who is working to build a fleet at my local club. Gaining critical mass is not easy. Our Laser fleet rarely gets more then 4 or 5 on a Sunday. our Solo fleet the same (these both have 'fleet status'). Do I want to sail either class....no. If the club said I had to I would simply move clubs.
We now have 10 boats in the club, what we are trying to do is get everyone out regularly. Our handicap fleet captain is trying to force us to our own start. I am resisting as the week in week out participation just isn't there yet. This is for a variety of reasons. One thing that is definite is that those who have the boats love them. A fair few also have other boats the like to sail 9the joys of multiple boat ownership). they also like to travel with their boats 2 (4 of them were at YDSC at the weekend). Love it or hate it Handicap racing is here to stay unless you happen to like or want to sail a class that has 'fleet' status at your local club. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 6:35pm | ||
We have 12 Comets and slightly more Lasers, we have same issue that Jeffers points out, we rarely get more than half a dozen of either, again multi boat owner issues, depending on weather they will either sail their Comet or their Laser, if a relative or friend turns up they will race something else, this is mainly Laser sailors.
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 7:00pm | ||
Second class citizens is a bit extreme; we're talking about fleet starts not apartheid. I think the scenario I suggest is actually far better for emerging fleets. Look at this way, you actually need very little to get a race going. Possibly the only thing a club really needs to supply is marks and safety cover. I've done plenty of impromptu racing with rabbit runs (gate starts) although a start line and timing is helpful, especially on restricted waters. Typically when you introduce a new class to a club you get assigned a fleet based on your PY. The courses are often the wrong configuration, the PY makes you un-competitive. And you can't tempt people to adopt your boat as the set racing just doesn't show off it's benefits. The prizes are handed out based on a PY no one really agrees with. If the club just provides a start, you can set your own course, record your own results. Agree the rules onshore. Create loose class bandings, or full on box development box rules. You can play around with race configuration to find something that really works. You're far more able to experiment and develop a format. Once you get enough of you signing up to the fleet / class / banding to the point where starts are crowded and recording results is more difficult (10 boats plus), then the club can provide that too and give you 'class start' and recognise the winners with trophies and prizes.
I'm not so sure. Are the 25 people going to other clubs a negative vote for the system? None of these people are saying they'd stop sailing, so presumably they're just moving to a club where their boat is sailed. On the poll only three people have unequivocally voted against the system. (I'd give up sailing + I sail one of those but would move clubs anyway). Also, if you'd rephrased it to fictitious classes the 7 people who sail those classes would have been able to vote... and as they're people who already sail popular classes, I'd wager most of them would change class, or change to a club that sailed that class.
Edited by mozzy - 09 Oct 17 at 7:32pm |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 7:31pm | ||
Mozzy,
having same start but then going off on their own course could cause havoc if both fleets came to a mark one on a port mark the other a starboard mark. When I set a course, I have a set of guidelines to work within ie first leg always a beat, first mark always port, so many tacks and so many gybes, this wouldn't alter regardless of type of boat.
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Guests
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 7:42pm | ||
Ha yes, that would be an issue. But presumably the main fleets courses go up on the board, you could choose any of those marks with the same rounding. We're talking about getting classes up and running too, so like 10 boats max. If there are enough to cause havoc then there are enough for their own official start, course finish and prizes. In Chichester harbour we have a few clubs all using the same marks.. for that reason many of them have set roundings.
Therein lie the problem with introducing new fleets / types of racing.
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 17 at 7:44pm | ||
The poll suggests this forum might be biased toward wanting handicap racing. Quelle surprise, it's the dinghy dev forum. If you asked the same question on one of several single class forums which are at least as active as this one, I suspect you'd get a different answer. Some people have said we have too many clubs. Maybe we have too many clubs all doing the same thing, PY racing? |
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