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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 11:24am
Hi oFFsake - I am not aware of any protests ever happening at the club (although as a young person I used to regularly be in protests on both sides or as a witness). I think you are right that the club wants people to have fun but at the same time there are plenty of good sailors and racing is close and competitive so I am also surprised that others just seem to be ok with the regular infringements. Will try your suggestions. I suspect that the people involved think they have water over the starboard boats at the windward mark. Either way, I am not keen to have a heavy FF come into my 50kg carbon hull!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 11:55am
Originally posted by davidyacht

There are some persistant Rule 42 offenders who if I know are sailing and it is light winds would cause me not to bother to compete.  And others who regard Rule 42 only to apply if someone vocally objects.  In both cases, somehow feel that I am the villain.

The reason you feel like a villain is that the rule is nonsensical in the first place.  

If you are racing to a level where you would even care to entertain the notion of monitoring other people's observance of 'the rules', then it's almost certainly a race at the physical sport end of the recreational sailing spectrum.  

As such, preventing kinetic energy through physical exertion is rather counter-intuitive for something which is claiming to be a bonafide sport.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 12:14pm
GML,

Back in the days when we sailed Arks the penalty used to be rerounding - I think that was what Sam was referring to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 12:36pm
H2,

Another point to consider, in respect of your previous windward mark description, is whether the miscreants are actually aware that they are breaking the rules?

We often have courses where the windward mark has to be left to Starboard. Not ideal but the lie of the land often more or less dictates it. I have come across many sailors who genuinely believe (a) you can call for water on a boat on the opposite tack, and / or (b) starboard tackers are obliged to tack at the mark.

Perfect cases where a quiet word once the red mist has dissipated may pay dividends, especially if a diagram from a decent rules book is to hand to clearly illustrate the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by GML

Sam, the penalty for touching a mark is a one-turn penalty (a '360' as some would call it). You don't have to go around the mark again (and you are required to keep clear of other boats while taking your penalty, so doing your penalty around the mark is probably a bad idea).

Yes, I do know that but didn't want to complicate what was alread a slightly rambling post  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by ohFFsake

One isolated success we had with a persistent rule 42 offender was when a few of us pre-arranged to chant "heeeeeaaaave!" in time with his rocking. It got to the stage where 5 or 6 were joining in and it was hilarious when he eventually worked out the connection with his actions.

It wasn't my idea but it worked, and it did so in a light hearted way. Wish I could come up with some other ideas as good!

I first saw that suggested 40 years ago in Eric Twiname's book "Start To Win" (still the best book for a mid fleet club sailor to read IMHO).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by PeterG

GML,

Back in the days when we sailed Arks the penalty used to be rerounding - I think that was what Sam was referring to.

Indeed I was.... (see above)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 17 at 5:43pm
I must have spent the first couple of years re-rounding touched marks, nobody told me about the 360 penalty in fact there are still the odd ex windsurfer who re rounds without thinking, mainly because the rule was long dropped in windsurfing and none of us spent a lot of time boning up on dinghy rules since they didn't seem to observe the ones they thought they had.

There's never been a protest despite some not really nice incidents that have been played to advantage, but 'they' are rule breaking dinghy sailors that don't know wtf they are doing anyway, difficult for us ex windsurfers to educate them. Having said that, the front runners are generally very good.

Down the lake it's different, they are very vocal, unless of course they are blatently in the wrong (Port Starboard) then it's some different set of rules for them and they are exempt from doing turns because they are in a slower boat I guess (Miracles).

So yes, rules do seem to be for guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools I fear, at least in both my local clubs races, I do however still do my turns if I knowingly breach them especially if kids are about, if they protest then I don't argue. I'll push it along with the best of them on the sea with R42, but can't down the lake and I need to know how to do it anyway so have considered it a class rule for EPS sailors to emulate the Finn, it's not easy pumping a dinghy, but I can at least do it now, but nowhere near as efficiently as a board.

As to they way it is, it's like the PY thing very difficult to enforce in a club political environment, but I have noticed the Laser fleet which is getting quite competitive, become a bit jiggy with overt rule flouting so it may improve in future.

Edited by iGRF - 19 Oct 17 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 17 at 9:01am
So, in windsurfing they had to scrap certain rules because everyone was cheating, yet you feel you have the moral high ground?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 17 at 9:13am
A bit like letting certain dinghy classes fly a 'k' flag and ignore Rule 42 ;)
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