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Is there a future for the Solution?

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Vronny

As Old Timer says, it's an expensive business for a builder to promote a class. It's also expensive and time consuming for a class association to do the same. But if the two work together, you stand a chance. However, the class needs to have built itself up so that the association has enthusiastic volunteers to help share the load and sufficient income from subscriptions, etc to make it possible to do some marketing, demos, and going to the Dinghy Show. 
It seems that several classes are relying heavily on their builders to do the marketing. At the Dinghy Show many classes built by Hartley or Ovington etc are displayed on the builders' stands. Presumably their class associations have some input but it gives the impression that the associations (i.e. the people who actually sail the boats and organise events and circuits etc) haven't got much to say. On the other hand, if you go to a class association stand, you can spend ages talking about the racing as well as the boat.
So the point I'm making is that for a class to be sustainable it doesn't just need to offer a nice sailing/racing experience but also needs an active class association. Even if you sail in handicap fleets at your own club, having a good class association means you can access information, go to open meetings, maybe also training sessions, etc. This is particularly important for people buying secondhand boats - and without a steady stream of happy secondhand boat buyers, the class is pretty much doomed.

+ 1 to that.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 1:33pm
Caveat to that last statement from Vroony:

Unless the steady stream of happy secondhand boat buyers the class is pretty much doomed, unless you have a steady stream of 'home boat builders' building.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Vronny

At the Dinghy Show many classes built by Hartley or Ovington etc are displayed on the builders' stands. Presumably their class associations have some input but it gives the impression that the associations (i.e. the people who actually sail the boats and organise events and circuits etc) haven't got much to say. On the other hand, if you go to a class association stand, you can spend ages talking about the racing as well as the boat.



Talking from experience the reason the CA sometimes doesn't have its own stand is two fold, it requires around 16-20 people to give up their time to man the stand over the weekend (2 days, 2 hour stints, 2 people per stint), plus a couple to take the boat up, set up the stand, than pack it away on the Sunday night.

Add to that (the main reason), it costs the CA around 1000 to have the stand in the first place, its a huge outlay for very little return.

If the builder is offering to showcase the boat with some input from the sailors who are at the show, helping out when necessary at no cost to the CA its fairly obvious it would be stupid not to take it



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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 2:14pm
Obviously class associations are vital for a strong class, but it's always struck me as a weird set up where the builder passes on responsibility for promoting the class to the CA. The builder makes a living selling boats, if he wants to sell more he should market it more, not rely on a group of owners to evangelise on a voluntary basis. Some owners will do this to protect their investment, but it is poor form to rely on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Obviously class associations are vital for a strong class, but it's always struck me as a weird set up where the builder passes on responsibility for promoting the class to the CA. The builder makes a living selling boats, if he wants to sell more he should market it more, not rely on a group of owners to evangelise on a voluntary basis. Some owners will do this to protect their investment, but it is poor form to rely on it.


+1

It's another archaic reason nothing goes anywhere unless it's RS and more recently Hartley punching the market. The people who's job it is to market a product are those who profit by it's sale. It's all very well abrogating your responsibility to a bunch of owners, but with that comes all the other none sense, like them thinking they have some God given right to prevent further development of the product to protect their own personal interests.

Now don't go giving me a load of horse sh*t that this class or that class does a good job, they don't, if they were, the entire sport would not be in decline, the toxic combination of classes, & the RYA is like the ultimate sales prevention team, I totally despair at times..

Look at the latest bollox going on with the Contender, rumours of some dumbed down club thing that no one will buy when really they should be building the Contender light, down to weight smaller rig and aimed at Gods chosen people, Lightweights and Ladies oh and the young of course...


Edited by iGRF - 18 Sep 17 at 2:56pm
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by iGRF

[QUOTE=A2Z]

Look at the latest bollox going on with the Contender, rumours of some dumbed down club thing that no one will buy when really they should be building the Contender light, down to weight smaller rig and aimed at Gods chosen people, Lightweights and Ladies oh and the young of course...

You know about the Farr 3.7 don't you iGRF, I guess they know about it too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by iGRF

really they should be building the Contender light, down to weight 

Here's an alternative for you Graeme. Instead of making the boats lighter (changing handling characteristics, stability et al) solve the shoreside handling. What we all need is a motorised, waterproof, solar powered trolley mechanism that can be retro-fitted (and decent wheels). On each of my dinghies, the actual boat's weight is irrelevant on land in the context of the half-a-ton of iron underneath it.




Edited by fab100 - 18 Sep 17 at 5:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 6:41pm
He's got a point. My Finn is obviously a little on the lardy size however cos the trolley is aluminium or really isn't that difficult to move about, unless it's hilly or on a beach, but then if your daft enough to sail off a beach get loads of helpers or a lighter boat
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 9:23pm
How much does a galv steel trolly weigh? I suspect there's only about 15kg difference between a steel trolly and an ally one. Not insignificant but there's 77kg difference between an Aero and a Finn.......
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Supernova 395 "dolly the sheep"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 17 at 10:05pm
For once this Sunday gone, my tidal tactical genius bore fruit and I finished ahead of the Contender who normally dominates at Hythe which meant I landed first and once I managed to drag my boat up the beach far enough that the water wouldn't reclaim it, difficult enough with the EPS, but I had to help him with his Contender. I was thinking once again how much I really want one, right up until the moment I tried to drag it forward on it's trolley. It is outrageous that something that size can be that heavy in this day and age, stupid and outrageous.
The trolley isn't the issue, once on the trolley we have winches to pull the boats up the beach, just get the damn thing on the trolley clear of the water in the first place is our issue and this was on an offshore wind day so not a great swell running, two of us struggled.
The Solution is not difficult, nor I suspect would a Farr 37 which funnily enough I've been eyeing up again as there was one on the duck for sale, but, it's a big risk buying without trying, certainly not without say a return if your not totally satisfied sort of deal that other products might offer.

Edited by iGRF - 18 Sep 17 at 10:08pm
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