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A Phantom experience

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 17 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by iGRF

e a trap isn't exactly a kite.

I'd say its most likely a bigger deal.
Consider.



The big thing, though, is that you've taken one of the rare boats that the horizontally challenged can sail competitively, and turned it into yet another boat for lightweights. Is that good for the sport?


Well if you're me I'd argue there ain't any modern boats for lightweights(that are not smods), Streaker aint modern and that Phantom, come the 'force four barrier' 100 kilos is going to beat 50 kilos all day long particularly once the volume crew weight factor has been effectively eradicated by sheer volume excess which you have in shedloads with the Phantom.

So If you were a class wanting to expand why not? It's simply a weight group issue, all off the same line and they have 60 entrys hiked and another 30 wired, what's wrong with that? I'd say you'd expanded your market, re vitalised your class, initally we're all likely to buy some old munter with an alloy stick and trapeze off that for a bit to see how long it lasts, it could be argued that whippy high mod masts are not going to be so effective for trap support so it could lower the tech, then what do I know, I've sailed one once, in a 2-3, every boat is nice in those conditions?

Edited by iGRF - 29 Aug 17 at 2:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tyler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 17 at 12:08pm
Trapezes have been tried in Phantoms in the past, it did not work out too well, mainly I believe due to the short bow and distance between mast and centre board pivot.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 17 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Tyler

Trapezes have been tried in Phantoms in the past, it did not work out too well, mainly I believe due to the short bow and distance between mast and centre board pivot.  


I'm intrigued now, my logic is, currently big bloke sat on side say 100 kgs and it's what 60:40 i.e 60kgs can be hanging out the side with 40 left 'in' the boat and if he's tall and agile the 60kg could be projected out almost as far as 60 of my kilos if I were trapezing.

So what is the difference?

If the trap lines take off from the point on the mast where the stays are currently that shouldn't change anything, if I'm standing about where big bloke is hiking?

I don't get where the short bow and distance between the mast and cnetre board pivot make a distance, been thinking about it almost since you first posted it, am perplexed and now I need to know, it's bugging me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 9:22am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Tyler

Trapezes have been tried in Phantoms in the past, it did not work out too well, mainly I believe due to the short bow and distance between mast and centre board pivot.  


I'm intrigued now, my logic is, currently big bloke sat on side say 100 kgs and it's what 60:40 i.e 60kgs can be hanging out the side with 40 left 'in' the boat and if he's tall and agile the 60kg could be projected out almost as far as 60 of my kilos if I were trapezing.

So what is the difference?

If the trap lines take off from the point on the mast where the stays are currently that shouldn't change anything, if I'm standing about where big bloke is hiking?

I don't get where the short bow and distance between the mast and cnetre board pivot make a distance, been thinking about it almost since you first posted it, am perplexed and now I need to know, it's bugging me.

It will affect the mast, there will be a sideways, rearwards and downwards pull from the trap wire which affect how the mast will respond and will probably affect mast bend as well. You could counteract that by having a stiffer mast of course but then you might need a different cut of sail...
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 9:48am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Tyler

Trapezes have been tried in Phantoms in the past, it did not work out too well, mainly I believe due to the short bow and distance between mast and centre board pivot.  


I'm intrigued now, my logic is, currently big bloke sat on side say 100 kgs and it's what 60:40 i.e 60kgs can be hanging out the side with 40 left 'in' the boat and if he's tall and agile the 60kg could be projected out almost as far as 60 of my kilos if I were trapezing.

So what is the difference?

If the trap lines take off from the point on the mast where the stays are currently that shouldn't change anything, if I'm standing about where big bloke is hiking?

I don't get where the short bow and distance between the mast and cnetre board pivot make a distance, been thinking about it almost since you first posted it, am perplexed and now I need to know, it's bugging me.

It will affect the mast, there will be a sideways, rearwards and downwards pull from the trap wire which affect how the mast will respond and will probably affect mast bend as well. You could counteract that by having a stiffer mast of course but then you might need a different cut of sail...

use a furball mast.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 9:57am
Hi GRF
Find a boat with a Seldon S3 mast as they were about as stiff a carbon mast as we have had.
still think its a dumb idea, by a 600, Contender or Farr if you want to trapeze.
The only change that to me is sensible is persuading the Solution guys to trial a carbon mast.
Super Spar have a high modules mast that would work or a Selden S1.
In general I cant understand why you borrow or buy a boat and dick about with it so its no longer what its supposed to be and say you think it will be so much better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 10:53am
iGRF,
You have shown the enthusiasm for this older design that CVRDA members show for older boats, be careful you could become a woody.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 11:56am
Originally posted by turnturtle



use a furball mast.... 


I assume you are making that comment based on your knowledge of where the Phantom rig came from?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 12:16pm
I read somewhere they use the Fireball mast or did, which was why the logic of trapezing was of interest.

RS600 to stupid to even try and bother with.

Contender too big and heavy and would be a nightmare trying to persuade my resident Contenders to accept me sailing a special light one even with a reduced rig they'd be fine right up until the moment I finished ahead of them.

Farr37? It's still on the list but not without trying it first and in race conditions, I don't believe it would keep up with a Laser in none trap conditions whereas a good old Phantom keeps them in their place at all times unless you cock up, then it's your fault.

Solution and carbon, yes would be nice but not that important, I get good racing with it as it is, just not on the sea and not off our beach.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Phil_1193

Originally posted by turnturtle



use a furball mast.... 


I assume you are making that comment based on your knowledge of where the Phantom rig came from?

partly... but also because I'd imagine the trapeze mount areas are reinforced accordingly for trapezes, whereas a dodgy bounce on the wire of a Phantom mast might rip the fitting out, even if technically the mast itself was strong enough.  
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