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A Phantom experience

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    Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:39pm
Just another thought, if a group of sailors bought used Phantoms, put FB sails and traps on them and called them SuperGhosts or something and raced them at their local club I doubt there would be anything practical the Phantom right's holders or CA could do about it. Bung in a few returns and get a PN and Robert is your relative?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 10:29am
The problem of geometry when helming from the wire is more or less the same in any boat that does so. You are going to be standing a metre or so aft of the mast upwind and nearer to 3 metres off wind. I would suspect the position of the mast in the boat and its rake will make a relatively small difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 10:02am
iGRF - I know I keep saying it but I really want you to try my Hadron H2 as I would love to know how you see it fit in the Solution - Phantom gap. My sense is that it might be the compromise you seek as it has a very tweakable rig to allow a wide range of body weights and I suspect you would find it very comfortable to hike.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 17 at 5:17pm
I did wonder that, but part of the beauty, like the Solution, you have on the fly rig raking so you can rake the mast aft as it gets breezier and the trap line will cant the rig to weather, which can be only good imv

I was really surprised the Contenders do not permit variable fore and aft rig tuning on the fly it would solve many of their issues burying your nose in the deck being one that springs to mind.

No, I don't think that's it. I don't think the Phantom is going to suddenly explode onto the plane upwind either, I just think the whole sensation of windward work will be just more comfortable standing than sitting.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Sep 17 at 5:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 17 at 6:59am
iGRF. re. short bow: mast: centre board.

It could be an issue of awkward geometry. Very generally you want to be wiring opposite the centre of effort and centre of resistance. Perhaps with a forward mast position, a relatively long footed sail and therefore a fair gap between board and mast the wire would be angled back too far for comfort. 
I only have self learnt knowledge of Contendering and you will know from boards about moving weight fore n aft. If I transfer my weight between my feet let alone running up and down the side the Contender moves about a lot. With another relatively low aspect sail it could be one of the reasons the Contender developed more and more rake over the years. To move the wiring anchorage back closer to over the centre of effort and improve balance.
Just thinking......................

BTW. I don't always agree with your interpretation of physics but I also can't see a lot of difference stress wise between 100kgs hiking and opposing a wind force through the shrouds to 50kgs wiring and opposing the same wind force though wires crimped to the top of the shrouds. In fact you could wonder if less stress as wiring the loads are from a wider base.

Also again although your logic sometimes defeats me I wouldn't knock you for speculating about "d***ing around" with designs, to me that is part of the spirit of dinghy sailing; relatively cheap boats which encourage experimentation.
 
edit spelling.  Wink




Edited by Do Different - 02 Sep 17 at 7:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Phil_1193

Originally posted by turnturtle



use a furball mast.... 


I assume you are making that comment based on your knowledge of where the Phantom rig came from?

partly... but also because I'd imagine the trapeze mount areas are reinforced accordingly for trapezes, whereas a dodgy bounce on the wire of a Phantom mast might rip the fitting out, even if technically the mast itself was strong enough.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 12:16pm
I read somewhere they use the Fireball mast or did, which was why the logic of trapezing was of interest.

RS600 to stupid to even try and bother with.

Contender too big and heavy and would be a nightmare trying to persuade my resident Contenders to accept me sailing a special light one even with a reduced rig they'd be fine right up until the moment I finished ahead of them.

Farr37? It's still on the list but not without trying it first and in race conditions, I don't believe it would keep up with a Laser in none trap conditions whereas a good old Phantom keeps them in their place at all times unless you cock up, then it's your fault.

Solution and carbon, yes would be nice but not that important, I get good racing with it as it is, just not on the sea and not off our beach.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 11:56am
Originally posted by turnturtle



use a furball mast.... 


I assume you are making that comment based on your knowledge of where the Phantom rig came from?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 10:53am
iGRF,
You have shown the enthusiasm for this older design that CVRDA members show for older boats, be careful you could become a woody.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 17 at 9:57am
Hi GRF
Find a boat with a Seldon S3 mast as they were about as stiff a carbon mast as we have had.
still think its a dumb idea, by a 600, Contender or Farr if you want to trapeze.
The only change that to me is sensible is persuading the Solution guys to trial a carbon mast.
Super Spar have a high modules mast that would work or a Selden S1.
In general I cant understand why you borrow or buy a boat and dick about with it so its no longer what its supposed to be and say you think it will be so much better.
Gordon
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