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Change the PY System? |
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Do Different
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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Topic: Change the PY System? Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 11:27am |
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Exactly Doug.H.
I was thinking the same but I thought I'd only add to the white noise by posting. I could go on but what's the point? It's always "their" fault anyway. BTW. I wonder how many points PYs should be adjusted for angle of heel boats are sailed at off upright? (I joke of course). |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 11:47am | |
+1 per degree of heel
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 11:58am | |
The point is that the RYA state that clubs should change the numbers for local use. But when you get into it, the effort to do so is high and the rewards low. Little wonder, then, that most clubs don't bother.
Which means the current system is broke. Or maybe it's just like democracy - the worst form of handicapping, except for all the other forms that have been tried from time to time.
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turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 12:04pm | |
I mean they are inappropriate points of reference for a general purpose club handicap system to use as its primary benchmark- hence why the current system is the best it's going to get |
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Do Different
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 7:43pm | |
Why change it and what aspects will changes make better.
Strikes me it's just like real life, far from perfect all the time but sometimes you get lucky. It has been said that Clubs won't locally adjust because it is too much work and causes more arguments. Well that tells a story of what a pain the whole affair is, for one I'm grateful for all the work PYAG an'll do that means I can simply sail to a national system. To my mind it is all bluster and bar talk about knack all, small percentages really. I can understand why people obsess about it but of course they're simply wrong It is the contradiction that puzzles me; it is plainly obvious that no system can ever fairly rate all boats over all wind strengths and venues. So if you care about results that much search out or build class racing and if you don't care enough to do that and prefer billy no mates sailing why are you making such a fuss. If you're a sailor you'll sail what you fancy primarily for the joy of it and if you're a racer it's class racing or PY and take it like a grown up. |
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PeterG
Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 9:32pm | |
It is the contradiction that puzzles me; it is plainly obvious that no system can ever fairly rate all boats over all wind strengths and venues. So if you care about results that much search out or build class racing and if you don't care enough to do that and prefer billy no mates sailing why are you making such a fuss.
Spot on. Though of course there are some people for whom making a fuss is the end in itself. |
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Jul 17 at 11:01pm | |
I don't think anyone disagrees that it is impractical to fairly rate all boats over all wind strengths and venues. But there could be more transparency, an explanation of the methodology published on the RYA website, better filtering of small changes, better communication and more realistic setting of expections regarding accuracy than we currently get. I'm sorry if that comes across as being disrespectful to volunteers who run the system, but the RYA is a professional outfit and should be held to account as such.
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 17 at 9:21am | |
I can understand why people obsess about it but of course they're simply wrong
I can appreciate why some say that they are not really bothered - and the humour (!) - it is a tiresome subject and we all agree it will never be perfect. If that is so then why are you bothered when others highlight what they believe are current failings and propose change to possibly improve it ... after all if what you say is true it would not really bother you anyway. You would be just as happy if say the GL numbers were used or the RYA themselves radically changed the methodology surely ... (maybe the status quo quietly suits some though !) oops- time to go sailing. Edited by Cirrus - 23 Jul 17 at 9:22am |
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zippyRN
Far too distracted from work Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 17 at 1:21pm | |
previous genesis of the PY system have appeared to use a scratch boat , but it assumes that the scratch boat does not move performance wise ...
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Do Different
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 17 at 6:08pm | |
Well Cirrus, my point is I am bothered but about sailing, much as yourself seems to be, I also went sailing yesterday and racing today; always the best antidote...........
To paraphrase "all agree.. never be perfect" "believe are current failings" "possibly improve it". Sounds like a proposal to change one imperfect system for another imperfect but different system. My concern is that it dominates and distracts thinking from sailing and gives newcomers something of a sideshow to worry about when there is so much more that influences your racing results. "status quo quietly suits" nope, not really, if I want know how I'm doing I'll go to a class meeting.
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