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Step 2, RS 300?

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Papa Smurf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Papa Smurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Step 2, RS 300?
    Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 6:02pm
So. Four years with a Laser and now I'm looking to change boat.

The Laser was always going to be a stepping stone to other things. Taught me to sail and get around a course. A bit like a first car, it got me going but isn't where I want to be.

I'm looking for a boat that is a pleasure to sail. 

I'm on the periphery of the racing scene, I enjoy taking part but cannot attend often enough to be a contender. It took me a while to accept that, but it isn't going to change any time soon, so better to enjoy the boat I'm sailing than to continue with one that isn't a great deal of fun just to be part of a single class fleet.There is enough of a mix in our Fast Handicap Fleet to make things interesting, should I find the right boat to join it.

The obvious choice would be one of the older classes, Solo, Streaker, Supernova (not Fast Handicap, 'though popular at my Club), but what appeals is the Aero, D-Zero, RS100. At 80kg's I'm too light for a Phantom, which is a shame as I think they are a beautiful boat.

Then we have the RS300. A bit of a wild card option. They are supposed to be a great boat to sail. A lot of fun, but a handful. 

I'm a reasonable helm, nothing special, mid fleet or a little higher.

I spent the first year or two falling out of my Laser, quite spectacularly on occasion, so getting wet hasn't yet faded from memory.

I'm tempted to go a little daft with the 300 for a while to see how I get on. Ten years from now the 300 will be far less of an option Smile
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 7:00pm
The 300 is a boat that rewards (and to some extent needs) a lot of time in the boat as it will punish silly mistakes. So if you are a little rusty then expect to swim more. That said when I sailed one I liked it a lot, never had one out in a blow though.

D-Zero (serious bias here I am involved with the class) lovely boat. Described as like a 300 but more forgiving. If you want a sail in one drop me a line and i can probably put you in touch with someone local who would be willing.

I sailed a Laser for a long time (and dabbled in other classes). Had a D-Zero pretty much since launch and love it.
Paul
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 17 at 9:22pm
We had 2 sailors who tried that transition.  One sailed his 300 once and has now moved on.  The other is persevering and loving it.  For me the 300 has been a life long (it's not mine) love affair.  I've had one 20 years and I just love sailing it.  But I can also remember the hard times before I got over the hump of required skills.  It gave me some tough love!  You need to try before you buy.  If you get on with it then great.

Where are you based/do you sail?

And for me the line about the DZero that it's like a 300 but more forgiving is paradoxical. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 12:01am
When you say you "can't attend enough to be a contender" do you mean you sail a lot but only race once or twice a month (at my club twice a month would get you a result) or only sail once or twice a month? If the former the 300 may be an enjoyable challenge, if the latter, a frustrating pig of a thing...... 

Since last November I've raced most weeks, in the Blaze until I bought Supernova last month and every week since. I've raced 'dolly the sheep' three times so far and, after gelling with the Blaze almost straight away I'm really struggling to make her go. Try to get a test sail in the boats on your short list and remember (as somebody on here likes to say..... sorry I can't remember who or the precise words but the sentiment is more or less) "buying a boat is not a marriage, you can sell it on and buy something different without guilt"
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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Phil_1193 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 6:18am
Originally posted by Papa Smurf

........ At 80kg's I'm too light for a Phantom.....


No you aren't

Try one before you think its all fat blokes. Ok so 90% of the fleet drop in the 90-110kg range but, flat cut sail, high mod carbon mast and you will be suprised how easy it is to sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Papa Smurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 7:27am
When you say you "can't attend enough to be a contender" do you mean you sail a lot but only race once or twice a month (at my club twice a month would get you a result) or only sail once or twice a month? If the former the 300 may be an enjoyable challenge, if the latter, a frustrating pig of a thing...... 

I work away from home for half the year, two months here, two months there.

When I'm back I sail whenever I can, two or three times a week. I occasionally sail / train during the working week, though doing so means sailing alone as there aren't many others in a similar position.

I find that if my work schedule has me home for the start of the season then all is good. I'm reasonably competitive as everyone is getting up to speed after winter layup. My problem is that when I return home after a period overseas I struggle to catch up with those that have spent that time racing.

This is life, no point in complaining about it. To make the most of it I would like to be playing catch up in a boat that is more enjoyable to sail than my Laser.

I have always lusted after a Phantom. They look very well done. Those on our water are well sailed. At 80kg's I have always thought myself too light for the boat.

Which brings me to the Solution. Another boat I like, but one that hasn't seemed to take off. The Aero and D-Zero look to have superceded it. The D-Zero in particular is a good looking boat with some excellent reviews. 

Now we are looking at modern boats the RS100 needs a mention, if for no other reason than it looks like fun. Unfortunately as an asymmetric it wouldn't be best served at my Club. The reduction in the number of double handers in general and asymmetric's in particular means that we don't set courses to suit them.

The RS300 comes into the mix as an older boat at a good price, a reputation as a difficult but hugely rewarding boat to sail.
 
I haven't made a decision other than that I need to move on from the Laser. I'm still open minded about the options I have.

I'm looking at the 300 now because there is one for sale near me. 

I would expect the learning curve with the 300 to be a rather wet one. I'm not so concerned about being successful or competitive immediately. I understand from all I have read that it is a challenging boat to sail. What does concern me is my ability to make progress with the boat with the interuptions in my sailing that my work schedule brings. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 10:08am
I bought an old 300 at the end of last season and have been chipping away at it when crew that must be obeyed fancies the afternoon off from the 200.
I am enjoying the 300 but this is what I think, for what it's worth:
Skill level, I did the Contender circuit for a few years, sailed Lasers a fair bit & assys.
Weight, 71Kg, bit light for 300 with B rig but doesn't seem to be a problem.
Fitness, I do some cct training fitness stuff & Yoga, at 51 it's use it or lose it.
I didn't find the boat too hard to step into but it's nothing like a Laser, very wobbly, a right bitch until the foils are down and getting the board in is an art in itself.
Upwind it wants to be flat or towards you and that means hiking hard.
Downwind I'm still working it out but there's a lot going on.
Capsize recovery is an art, at first I really struggled to get back in but I've sussed it now, Fitness!
Wind strengths, the 300 seems to excel in the mid strength, it's horrible when it's light and at 20Kts I'm still trying to work it out, gybing has to be spot on, not there yet.
I have come to the conclusion that the hull is locked into a speed range and whereas something like a Blaze just planes higher and faster the 300 can't, downwind at 20Kts I can't hike out the back hard enough to lift the bow.

What I really like about the 300 is that you can really throw it around, it's light and responsive in a way that the Contender and the Laser are not.

I think you need to try one, it might be too big a jump, but maybe not.
Hope that helps.
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 11:02am
I have both a 300 and a D-Zero. Without doubt the 300 is a more difficult boat to sail, but a huge amount of fun. As Piglet says, there's a definite speed ceiling as in strong winds you have to back off downwind otherwise you won't survive. There's also a learning curve you have to get through, which is likely to last several months. Having said that, the 300 makes you a better sailor as the boat tells you if you're doing something wrong! It tells you quickly too. However, there's a reason I kept my 300 when I bought a D-Zero earlier this year - it is too rewarding to get rid of.

The D-Zero is also a great boat. It is much easier to sail downwind than the 300 as it has a nice flat planing section at the rear of the boat, like a skiff. This allows you to take more liberties with it than the 300 and not get wet. Interestingly, I find the D-Zero much more difficult to sail upwind. This may have something to do with the narrow beam and may have something to do with my (lack of) technique. The 300 has loads of power and loads of beam so upwind you pull everything in and the boat just powers away. I find much more body and tiller movement is required in the D-Zero.

As for the Phantom, I borrowed one for a very windy champs at Shoreham a few years ago (force 5 to 6), my first time in the boat. I weigh 81kg. I found it more of a struggle upwind until I figured out the settings needed. By the end of the weekend I was getting top 10 results. I think90kg might be better in a Phantom - I know most of the fleet is heavier but not all of them sit out all that hard. You have the same righting moment at 80 kilos sitting out hard than a heavier person does perching on the sidedeck. Like the D-Zero the Phantom is pretty stable downwind (but you do need to be aware of the low boom).
Steve B
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 11:05am
Originally posted by sargesail


And for me the line about the DZero that it's like a 300 but more forgiving is paradoxical. 

To put this in context, the sailing style is similar with the rig and the nice bow shape- it's responsive and clean; both great to windward, both stunning on a reach or dead downwind by the lee.  Once you get over the rolling motion, I don't actually think the RS300 is that hard to sail up to around 14 knots of breeze - I'm not saying I'd be competitive in one, especially with your current handicap (you lot have got too good!), but to just go sailing, it's not the demon it's been made out to be.

I know a few people who have owned/sailed both and all find similarities between both that are all-round positive.  The general vibe is the D-Zero is a little easier though... and would probably suit someone with less time more.

I described the D-Zero as a RS300 on its meds.... I love both boats, and quite frankly am seriously considering both with a view to buying one in the autumn.   


Edited by turnturtle - 19 Jul 17 at 11:06am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 17 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Papa Smurf

]I have always lusted after a Phantom. They look very well done. Those on our water are well sailed. At 80kg's I have always thought myself too light for the boat.
Which brings me to the Solution. Another boat I like, but one that hasn't seemed to take off. The Aero and D-Zero look to have superceded it. ]


You sound like me, I've always wanted a Phantom but am to small I'm even thinking of getting one anyway and fitting a trapeze, but that's another fantasy, right now I'm firmly in the Solution = nicest boat of them all camp.

I also loved the D Zero enough to place a deposit and I am tempted by the Aero 7, but the Solution beats them both hands down with it's raising centreboard, and raking rig on the fly so no it hasn't been superceded just terribly marketed.

I'm not going to go into all the negatives of the others or of the Solution for that matter (it's far from perfect)but I would say it is the most Phantom like of all the single handers out there and was designed that way by former Phantom sailors.

Edit forgot the 300, I took one out once was lucky to get back alive, terrible boat nasty nasty nasty.

Edited by iGRF - 19 Jul 17 at 11:37am
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