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Requesting Redress

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Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by GML

Best practice when giving average points as redress to a boat that has finished a race is for the protest committee to say something like "Average points in accordance with A10(a) but not worse than X points" where X is the number of points you got for your actual finishing position in the race.

Would you care to cite some authoritative document?

Whilst accepting that it is not binding in all situations, I would refer the honourable gentleman to paragraph 6.3 of Section B of the World Sailing Jury Policies, February 2017 (http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/JuryPoliciesFebruary2017-[22447].pdf):

6.3 In all cases in which average points will be awarded to a boat that has a finishing position, add ‘but no worse than N’ (where N is the boat’s finishing position).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 11:12am
Thank you.

Can't argue with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by jeffers

Personally if you missed the 2 previous signals then the 'no fault of your own' bit falls over. Were I on the PC I would be asking that question of you.

Mistakes happen, we all know what the rules say and perhaps the RO should have abandoned the sequence but in a club race was it necessary?
Yes it was.

AP is the race officers' friend, and ever RO should be able to run an AP sequence smoothly and quickly.

There's no excuse for letting a clearly improper starting sequence ride.

If only to avoid the problem with fault of boat's own.

I appreciate what you are saying there but a lot of club ROs are volunteers. if you got really anal about something like this you would find your volunteer list would shrink considerably and club racing would be in jeapordy.

The OP should have chucked in a request for redress and seen what the PC came back with. there was clearly a but of fault on both sides. The OP for missing the 2 previous signals and the RO for not abandoning the start once the flag had got stuck.

There seems to be little appetite at club level for training to be an RO with most people wanting to 'wing it' on the day. Most club level racing is fairly laid back even if the on the water action is competitive (just my experience as opposed to the letter of the law).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 6:17pm
in this situation it was the most prestigious race series of the club calendar and it so happened I wasn't going to be competitive due to 1 reason or another and decided I would seek clarification over a few points on here than cause issues within the club. As per the comment about not bringing up issues like this to prevent losing volunteers; where do you draw the line between losing volunteers because they don't wont tolerate criticism or losing competitors because the sailing is sh*t


The whole point of those 3 signals is to indicate how long is left until a start otherwise we would only have 1, even if i had have synced my watch at the 5 minute and then inside the 1 minute mark realized the P flag was still up I could still have aborted the start and assumed my watch was wrong. Had it been anything but a P flag you certainly would abandon your start than risking taking a penalty 

What did we rely on before waterproof watches?


Edited by ClubRacer - 10 Jul 17 at 6:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 7:09pm
Stopwatches on a lanyard round one's neck, I seem to remember.

The measured candle on the foredeck was less successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 10:22pm
What did we rely on before waterproof watches?

Hourglasses, of course. Possibly a little limited in resolution.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 12:37am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Brass

[QUOTE=jeffers]
AP is the race officers' friend, and every RO should be able to run an AP sequence smoothly and quickly.

There's no excuse for letting a clearly improper starting sequence ride.
I appreciate what you are saying there but a lot of club ROs are volunteers. if you got really anal about something like this you would find your volunteer list would shrink considerably and club racing would be in jeopardy.

I don't think expecting competent performance by race officials is 'getting really anal', but my post:
  •  was, to a degree, 'aspirational', rather than suggesting a night of the long knives against all poorly performing volunteer race officers;  and
  • was also intended to make the point that, of all the errors that a race office can make:  poor course selection, untrue lines/legs etc, bungled starting sequences are important ones that should not be let ride.




Edited by Brass - 11 Jul 17 at 12:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 12:39am
Originally posted by ClubRacer

in this situation it was the most prestigious race series of the club calendar and it so happened I wasn't going to be competitive due to 1 reason or another and decided I would seek clarification over a few points on here than cause issues within the club. As per the comment about not bringing up issues like this to prevent losing volunteers; where do you draw the line between losing volunteers because they don't wont tolerate criticism or losing competitors because the sailing is sh*t.

To be fair. O don't think jeffers was saying 'don't bring it up':  he was saying 'don't get really anal about it'.  I can agree with that.

I also agree that stating standards, and providing civil feedback and critique is a good way of maintaining or improving standards.

A bit of leadership helps.  At a couple of RO seminars I have run, it's amazing what a good turn up there has been when one of the club flag officers attends.

The whole point of those 3 signals is to indicate how long is left until a start

That's not quite right.  In addition to providing multiple opportunities to synchronise time, the Preparatory signal signals the start of racing, and the One Minute Signal signals the start of the one minute period for I, Z, U and Black flag starts.

otherwise we would only have 1, even if i had have synced my watch at the 5 minute and then inside the 1 minute mark realized the P flag was still up I could still have aborted the start and assumed my watch was wrong. Had it been anything but a P flag you certainly would abandon your start than risking taking a penalty 

What did we rely on before waterproof watches?

All sorts of weird and wonderfully complex signalling systems, with three red flags, falling on consecutive minutes, flashing lights etc etc:  Just boundless opportunities for race committee stuff ups.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 7:09am
I was RO a couple of months ago, I had started race, all in correct sequence, boats away, had to call them back, been going about 2 minutes, abuse level unbelievable, only a club race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 17 at 7:32am
Why the recall?
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