Redress in anticipation of being disadvantaged?

   My son is currently at an international windsurfing event. The committee have just put up a notice saying that registered equipment must not be taken out of the designated area, but the designated area is not big enough for all competitors to rig.

The two possible impacts I see are that sailors who do not have space to rig can't begin rigging until the fleet is released, hence being disadvantaged by not getting the same amount of time for prestart routine, etc, and there is an increased risk of kit getting damaged as people are rigging on top of each other. There is space on the shore outside of the designated area. 

Rule 62.1 says redress can be considered based on a claim OR POSSIBILITY that a boats score has been OR MAY BE ........ Made significantly worse by an improper action of the race committee, organising authority, etc

Firstly, does the inadequate size of the designated area constitute an improper action, and secondly, should he wait to be impacted to request redress or put a request in in anticipation in the hope it forces the committee to see sense?

If he did, would he get marked out as a trouble maker and get a lot of attention throughout the championship?

Thanks for any wise words :-)

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GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Redress in anticipation of being disadvantaged? Posted: 26 Jun 17 at 9:17pm
	My son is currently at an international windsurfing event. The committee have just put up a notice saying that registered equipment must not be taken out of the designated area, but the designated area is not big enough for all competitors to rig. The two possible impacts I see are that sailors who do not have space to rig can't begin rigging until the fleet is released, hence being disadvantaged by not getting the same amount of time for prestart routine, etc, and there is an increased risk of kit getting damaged as people are rigging on top of each other. There is space on the shore outside of the designated area. Rule 62.1 says redress can be considered based on a claim OR POSSIBILITY that a boats score has been OR MAY BE ........ Made significantly worse by an improper action of the race committee, organising authority, etc Firstly, does the inadequate size of the designated area constitute an improper action, and secondly, should he wait to be impacted to request redress or put a request in in anticipation in the hope it forces the committee to see sense? If he did, would he get marked out as a trouble maker and get a lot of attention throughout the championship? Thanks for any wise words :-)

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 17 at 9:31pm
	If its a problem for all competitors then its best that representatives for all the competitors liaise with the organisers. Putting in a redress claim at this stage doesn't seem to me useful, but so much depends on how the event is organised.

GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 17 at 9:40pm
	It is going to be raised at the coaches meeting, so hopefully that will help. This is a youth worlds, so sailors as young as 15, and the juror/measurer was being really quite rude and aggressive to the sailors so I'm just trying find the simplest way for my son to avoid the stress of this particular official being a prick in his direction. Current plan is to get up early to ensure he gets rigged, but its still not fair to everyone. Edited by GarethT - 26 Jun 17 at 9:41pm

sargesail Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459	Post Options Post Reply Quote sargesail Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 17 at 10:06pm
	Hey Gareth - good luck to Ben. Hope this gets resolved. Had the same question myself this week: we knew how the RC intended to score non-finishers but had not seen any results. So we stuck it in anyway, so that they could not deny the redress based on time limit. It's possible that the answer is in your 'get up early'....but of course that wouldn't work if everyone did. Is it an action or omission? To my mind Yes. But all boats are equally affected and the score is only worsened if it actually affects his result, either through equipment damage or in ability to get on the course on time. So definitely one for the coaches to begin with. Equally that means he doesn't have to worry about resolution....which may be as important as not being marked as a trouble maker. Save us from officious officials though!

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jun 17 at 12:02am
	The purpose of inserting the words 'or possibility' and 'may be' in rule 62.1 was exactly to comprehend situations like this, where a consequence of an action can be foreseen and resolved, rather than waiting for it to happen. Rule 62.2 requires that a request for redress shall be delivered to the race office as soon as reasonably possible after learning of the reasons for making the request. This suggests that you would have been wise to deliver a written request for redress immediately you became aware of the problem. You don't need advice from the internet to advance a 'claim' that an action of the race committee or organisiing authority is improper. The protest committee will decide that in the hearing. Suggest you have your written request for redress hot to go immediately an adverse response on the issue at the Coaches Meeting comes out. It bothers me that a member of the Technical Committee or Protest Committee is involved in telling competitors that no change to an arrangement made by the race committee or organising authority will be made, let alone being rude to competitors. Edited by Brass - 27 Jun 17 at 12:02am

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jun 17 at 9:31am
	Can't you just point out that they need to increase the designated area a tad? There's a reason for the designated area, windsurfing has a long history of cheating b**tards removing things like sails, centreboards, fins and modifying them to advantage after they've been stamped.
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GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jun 17 at 9:34am
	Tried that. "Not his problem".

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jun 17 at 12:20pm
	Sounds as if the Circulo Surf Torbole is angling for a very bad write up in the class annual report.

GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Jun 17 at 4:28pm
	Common sense appears to have prevailed after the coaches meeting.