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Club racing, multiple entries.

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 6:53pm
We've had this discussion recently IIRC. Either way my new club said they would treat it as two separate entries of I used the Blaze and Fire rigs during the same series. Not quite the same thing but I did some class racing crewing in a pals Merlin a few years ago, he let me helm one race as at his club the points all accrue to the boat not the helm.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 7:13pm
Moral maze:
Crew changes are generally accepted
Crew/Helm swap over might be accepted
Different helms same boat?
Different boats same helm?

Craiggo, do some competitors use this to advantage?

Edited by piglet - 22 Dec 16 at 7:15pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by piglet

I had assumed in my ignorance that 1boat=1entry


The default position, AIUI, is indeed one boat, one entry, **no matter who is sailing the boat**. Which would give the prospect of, I dunno, lets say Team KitKat class,turning up with three boats with different sized rigs and 4 crews and helms of varying weights, and rotating the ideal sized crew/helm into each boat for the expected conditions in that race... But this is normally changed in NOR/SIs for small boat racing.

Edited by JimC - 22 Dec 16 at 8:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 9:41pm
I can't see a reason to disallow a helm and crew swapping roles, in many boats the crews job is more involved than the helm. Likewise having multiple crews over the course of a series will be a disadvantage in many boats (maybe not in an Enterprise with an 8 year old in the light stuff and a gorilla when it blows :))
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by piglet

I had assumed in my ignorance that 1boat=1entry was the status quo everywhere. 
Is this underpinned in the RRS? (& where?) 
Generally the RRS are about 'boats'

A boat is entered in a race by a member of a club or other organization affiliated to an ISAF
member national authority, such a club or organization, or a member of an ISAF member national authority. (rule 75.1)

I do know of one club that voted to trial Laser down-rigging.

Laser Class Rules specifically prohibit changing rigs during a series (Laser Class Rules 28( d ) and 29( d ).

If a club and its members choose not to enforce this rule that's fine until a protest or an appeal comes along.

My observation has been that the Radial/4.7 downsize comes mainly with Grand Masters, who are smart enough to want to make the choice between having a nice sail in 20 kts with the 4.7 or getting beaten up with the Radial.  Makes sense to me.

Using highest PY makes sense to me.  I think it would be very rare that a 4.7 would be faster round the course than a Radial:  it's not like the 1, 2, and 3 rigs on an 18 footer.
Not sure how successful it's been.


Originally posted by piglet

Moral maze:
Crew changes are generally accepted
Crew/Helm swap over might be accepted
Different helms same boat?
Different boats same helm?

Craiggo, do some competitors use this to advantage?

The RRS themselves don't say anything about helming or 'skippering' except that a boat shall have on board a person in charge designated by the member or organization that entered the boat (rule 46).

Restrictions on crew and helm changes are usually imposed by SI.

Some snotty yotti clubs get positively hydrophobic about anybody but a member who is the owner steering a boat.

Some clubs, in various guises run 'personal' pointscores.

It would seem consistent with the Laser ethos that the boat is irrelevant and it's the driver that counts.



Edited by Brass - 22 Dec 16 at 10:33pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 16 at 11:34pm
At my holiday club http://https://sites.google.com/site/llanfwrogsc/ we race to a very 'novice friendly' system. The points accrue to the helm rather than the boat and one race weekend is for a 'novice trophy's.e. the helm must have not won before. We don't do line starts either, all are timed beach starts. TBF that's as much for the convenience of the non-sailing race officers (usually wives and girlfriends) as for the inexperienced sailors. It seems to work as we averaged 23 boats for six or seven two race series this year with everything from new sailors to the experienced and Mirrors to a 49er taking part. I suspect if one of the better sailors changed boat during a weekend we'd ask the reason why but if it was simply down to crew availability we'd score them, as with everybody else on corrected finishing position regardless of the boat. Not sure we'd be so accommodating if it was a change from Radial to 4.7 though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 16 at 4:43pm
I haven't come across anyone changing boats for advantage. A fair few of us at the club have a doublehander and a singlehander and if our crews aren't available we take our singlehanders out. We had a few Laser sailors who switched down a rig size on windy days but to be honest they aren't Laser circuit standard sailors so it's good just keep them on the water having fun, and they probably won't be in the chocolates anyway. I haven't come across any obvious cheating. The only thing you have to be careful with is that before you submit the results to the RYA pys you need to create separate entries for each boat or it messes up the returns. I did ask the sailwave guys to look at doing an update that allowed for this but it's low down on the properties list.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 16 at 11:00pm
I've swapped boats in such a way that I've had an advantage. If I hadn't swapped boats, I'd have either been watching, or upside down. As it is, I've won. The joys of family Topper ownership!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 16 at 11:11pm
I sailed the Spice solo at the las event this year, in light airs I won on the Saturday (by a minute on corrected time), F3-4 on Sunday and I did end living up the the boats monika the "Yellow Upside Down Boat".....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 16 at 7:54am
We have an uneasy truce on the use of 4.7's, unless that is your class of course.
This is my fault, I did a race a while back in extreme wind and won by a ridiculous margin. It didn't count in my series though.
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