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Speed Off the Line

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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by iGRF

That start video URL https://www.facebook.com/RedoubtSailingClub/videos/1331781413533049/

I'm 399 2nd boat away.

Pull the sail in and get your ar$e over the side

How deep is the water? Looks like you could have got out and held her on station
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 3:36pm
Also looks like the other boat either has more rake running or more kicker on as your boom angles are different.

Looks like kicker but you may want to compare settings.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 3:55pm
I think that I would have been lining up below the other Solution to squeeze him out at the pin, or lee bow him.  Had you been further ahead he could have been quite aggressive.  You could have worked out a transit to allow you to lay the pin, with him as keep clear boat, or even held station by the IDM.  The way that everyone fetched in would suggest that a well timed run in could have been quite effective.

Ref. Line settings; its good to mark up your kicker, and other controls with a scale, or with a permanent marker so that you can readily repeat known fast settings; it's no good having your head in the bottom of the boat randomly pulling controls, while the bigger picture is the guy coming up from underneath of you.  There is a gear change from accelerating off the line to straight line speed, but really the kicker is the only control that need be adjusted at this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 4:18pm
I've seen this time and time again and the only answer is practice I'm afraid. As others have said, the ability to "park" a boat is vital, We used to practice this for hours at a time back in the day on Jim Saltonstalls training camps. He also used to make us race dozens of short (50 metre??) races a day, so we got to do start after start after start, all videoed for later analysis.

If you haven't got any racing coaches at the club I'm sure the RYA RDO could find someone to run a session. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris415700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 5:52pm
You're sitting too far back.

Look at what the other guy is doing. 

With about 3 seconds to go he pulls the trigger and accelerates away while you are healed to windward with the sail out. 

As he pulls the trigger he moves forward to stop the transom dragging in the water, while you stay further back.

It looks like the other guy has more kicker on allowing him to point higher. You have less kicker and the lack of pointing ability coupled with the lack of lift from the foils due to less speed means that you end up sailing deeper and deeper into his dirty air. Just where you do not want to be.

Finally about 6 seconds after the gun you have your head in the bottom of the boat, while the other guy is sitting forward, concentrating on speed and looking up checking the rig.

Oh, and did I mention you're sitting too far back?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by iGRF

That start video URL https://www.facebook.com/RedoubtSailingClub/videos/1331781413533049/

I'm 399 2nd boat away.

Pull the sail in and get your ar$e over the side
How deep is the water? Looks like you could have got out and held her on station


Yes you probably could that marker is a shallow spot it's normally under water but we've been light on rainfall this autumn so the other issue was running aground. Jack knew all that and probably guessed rightly there was no way above him, my plate kicked back a bit as the gun went.

it's difficult to assess the line originally my plan was to try a starboard approach blocking then tack onto port last minute but a sudden shift and wind drop put paid to that idea and pretty much everyone had to shuffle to line up for a port end run, I was lucky to get ahead, got a lucky puff, that bit is right next to some reeds that cause a windshadow, he was just far enough out to hike, I'd have gone in to weather if I'd sat out to hard at that point, he was lucky a bit as well I guess but he did set himself up nicely.

They've all been chastising me for insufficient kicker, you'd think by now there would be guages for kicker tension with numbers on them, then all you old boys and bloody youf practising for hours on end wouldn't have that advantage now would you? I can't believe I'm going to have to go and practise this sh*t all over again, I'm far too important to be learning beginner stuff..

Edited by iGRF - 13 Dec 16 at 5:58pm
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 6:10pm

Originally posted by iGRF

They've all been chastising me for insufficient kicker, you'd think by now there would be guages for kicker tension with numbers on them, then all you old boys and bloody youf practising for hours on end wouldn't have that advantage now would you? I can't believe I'm going to have to go and practise this sh*t all over again, I'm far too important to be learning beginner stuff..

here's a rule of thumb* for you then, you want the final third of the top batten to be parallel to the boom. If it's falling away, pull harder, if its hooking to windward, ease kicker.

*this does not work for Lasers


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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 6:58pm
Gauges for kickers ... I have three indelible marks on the kicker multi purchase to check the final purchase block against, these are about 2" to 3" apart, the middle setting was set following some buddy training, the other settings are, lots of kicker, for breeze and pointing (in a Solo) and not a lot of kicker, mainly used in dead boat situations.

One device that turned up at the Solo nationals was having a scale on the boom, a line from the last purchase going through a block adjacent to the kicker take off, then a plastic stopper, then bungee dead ended on one of the main sheet boom eyes, you can then read off the kicker tension from stopper relative to the number scale.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 7:00pm
Informative thread this one, and hats off to igrf for putting up the video.
The space to leeward thing always gets me, how do you defend it? Just when I think I've got a nice bit of room to accelerate into, somebody pops into it, forces me up and I get spat out the back. Any suggestions what I should be doing?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 7:18pm
If you look at your boat about 3 lengths from the line, you can see about 3-4 inches of the turn of the bow out of the water. Definitely not quick but easy to correct by sitting further forward. I've always buried the bow in upwind and get the transom out when its light winds.
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