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Tiller Grip

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:37am
Purely my own observational comments.
Surely across chest or over shoulder is a dynamic thing depending on the position of the helm on different points of sail and subtle differences  of the geometry between boats.
When using a dagger grip, flicking between over aft shoulder and across the chest requires only an  effortless rotation. With a centre sheeting point pushing the extension in front of you as you cross the boat can be smoothly accomplished without any changes of grip.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 10:05am
In the L2 I use dagger unless I'm sitting in and then frying pan. I have an old Ent and I really couldn't face transom sheeting so I converted it to sheet off the boom, dagger most of the time.

I help out occasionally with adult learners in club Visions. The tiller & extension are way too short to get the trim right, presumably made like this so it all passes the falls. Frying pan grip with that awful (IMO) boat.


Edited by transient - 22 Sep 16 at 10:07am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 12:36pm
I didn't realise you had to hold it in any specific way and for the life of me I can't remember which way I think it differs depending on which tack I'm on then if it's light I just have the knob on the end between the two index fingers.

You do have to have it sort of dagger when you need to grab rope to sheet in hard I know that but then you switch back don't you? Is it important?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 1:47pm
All the official instructor johnnies seem to attach considerable importance to such things  Wink When I did a windsurfing instructor course back in the mists I was castigated relentlessly for an underhand front grip. Having raced Raceboards with modest success for more years than care to relate, I maintain it is better in many circumstances. When I learned to sail dinghies (mid '60s) there was no fuss, you just held the tiller in whatever way felt comfortable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 4:00pm
To be honest I've never heard the tern "frying pan grip" although I've heard of the "briefcase grip" which is probably the same.
I know a lot of the top guys will use the briefcase grip in light winds, that is tiller aft of them as they swear it causes less involuntary movement and minor use of the tiller is just that, very small movement, as said above you will also see them place the tiller on the deck to stop any movement.

However my understanding is that as the wind builds and you start to hike then the across the chest, dagger grip as you describe, is used by most, as the wind builds you are likely to be altering the mainsheet tension much more, and occasionally large amounts of it, so 2 hands for sheeting are required. There are of course exceptions to this, I14 for example with both crew on the wire and the helm is just steering as the crew has the mainsheet, this gives more options as to how to hold the tiller.

However at the end of the day you do what feels right for you, and what allows you to do the other things in the boat smoothly, you can't be thinking about how to hold the tiller when your head and eyes should be out of the boat.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

All the official instructor johnnies seem to attach considerable importance to such things  Wink When I did a windsurfing instructor course back in the mists I was castigated relentlessly for an underhand front grip. Having raced Raceboards with modest success for more years than care to relate, I maintain it is better in many circumstances. When I learned to sail dinghies (mid '60s) there was no fuss, you just held the tiller in whatever way felt comfortable.


I still use underhand grip up wind in certain circumstances, there are no absolutes racing windsurfers you just do what it takes to beat the other b**tards..

As for SI's I've met, they're often great at boat handling but they don't have the first idea how to race, wandering all over the show, overstanding, leaving miles of room at marks, never on the start line never mind the right end and as for spotting shifts....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 9:56pm
On my DI course, on my various endorsements and even on my SI course I've been told I hold my tiller extension wrong, mainly by people who I could happily beat in a race. So long as I know how to teach where to hold the tiller when starting out, to make life easy for the student and allow sails to be sheeted properly, if they then find a way that suits them better as they improve, then I'm happy with that.

I'm running a race training course this weekend. If I see tillers being held in such a way that it is slowing people down, I shall suggest changes. Otherwise, I really don't care.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by iGRF

 

As for SI's I've met, they're often great at boat handling but they don't have the first idea how to race, wandering all over the show, overstanding, leaving miles of room at marks, never on the start line never mind the right end and as for spotting shifts....


Senior Instructor means nothing in terms of  ability  it just means you can be a course leader/ director / be put forward as a prinicipal  instructor   ( iirc  there's also something about needing a Senior instructor present if there are a certain amount of  students 'on site' at any one  )

Instructors teach up to level 3 as was ( in the old G4 scheme)

Advanced Instructors  teach  the old level 5 / instructor  pre-entry assessment 

Racing Instructors  teach the old level 4 /  red/white ./ blue racing badges 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 6:45am
In the Phantom with a centre main sheet and no cleat its best to hold the tiller across the chest then the thumb on the tiler hand can hold the sheet as you sheet in and move your other hand down the rope, as opposed to using your teeth.

Also means you can hold the mainsheet in the tiler hand when you need to adjust kicker, forestay, out haul, cunningham, lowers and pulling centre board up/ down, with the other hand!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 9:24am
That's the only advantage of an across the chest tiller extension position but then I struggle with the lack of feel and control the inefficient angle of the extension causes........ Perhaps I should go back to transom sheeting :(
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