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Mixed Kites on a reach

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    Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 8:16am
A  boat has cleared the ww mark and hoisted a sym. kite then an asy. rigged just clear behind and below does the same and comes up underneath and gains an overlap. Shouts for sym. to keep clear but cannot actually get close enough to need water as kite keeps collapsing and gets madder and madder with the flapping on off mess. By the way, pretty windy and sym. is going as high as they can anyway.

My view is asy. was flawed to put themselves in that position of trying to pass to leeward, better to have gone behind and above but what do the rules say please?

Anyone else had this and yes I'm the old giffer with the big sym. kite. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 9:03am
Doesn't sound as if any rules were broken.

W was required to keep clear and claims she did so, L was probably required not to sail above proper course and probably didn't.

If W had needed to point higher to keep clear then she must even if it means letting the kite flog.

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Tactically if I were W I'm not sure I'd be wanting to encourage people to overtake me to windward. By the sound of things L should probably have gone lower for clearer air, and then pointed up with speed to get through to leeward.

Edited by JimC - 21 Jul 16 at 9:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 12:03pm
In general terms, though, if the assy's proper course is higher than the sym's in order to keep the kite flying at its optimum, then the windward sym will need to keep clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 3:20pm
Thanks Jim 
Well yes Rupert and I will ALWAYS play nicely BUT we a talking about giving water not clear air and I'm a  generous soul but if someone has sailed themselves into a hole then it's not my place to dig 'em out of it. There was plenty of water and I'm talking seamanlike distance of two or three boat widths not lake-wise a couple of feet, I cant see it's my problem if they're thrashing about off my lee quarter and falling in to windward in my dirty air. 
JimC. I'll nearly always let a faster boat go over me, especially in the circumstances / asy:sym mix above to get on with both our races, I'm not in the business of slowing anybody up just because I can. To my mind this one though put himself in a daft place and then wanted to shout his way out of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 4:12pm
By your description of the incident I don't even know what L was shouting about. Presumably his view was rather different.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 4:38pm
I try to be even handed although of course as they do say "history is written by the victors" and we did see them off.

It was seriously breezy so frustration I guess, they were having quite a rough time  and no doubt without us being "in the way" and of similar speed they could have heated up nicely and had a nice ride.  

A moments forethought of what was in front of them, would have saved a lot of grief. They probably would never have had enough grunt to pass by going deep under us but a few seconds of going higher before the hoist would have seen them clear above and able to achieve their best angle.

Surely though that is mixed fleet racing. You have to think ahead a lot further than the end of the pole and be aware of what those around you are likely to do and be capable of doing. For instance I'm never going over the top of a Fireball on a three sailer but I'll happily take it on to go over a L4K to windward.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 4:57pm
As the others have already said they can continue to sail their proer course which for an assy on a deep reach/run will be a hotter angle than a sym boat.

As WW boat you are obliged to keep clear and they are obliged to NOT sail above their proper course so kite flogging is irrelevant as proper is defined as in the absence of other boats.

Personally if I were the assy boat I would try to shoot off deeper and come up later to minimise the wind shadow/dirty air effect from you or go behind and pass you to windward.

Doesn't sound like any rules were broken if they could not get close enough to you anyway (2-3BL clear of you is likely more than enough room to satisfy the rules).

As with everything they may have rights meaning you have to keep clear. Sometimes it is better to not exercise the rights and choose a different course.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 16 at 10:22pm
DD, from you later post it sounds like the reason for a change of course would have been caused by your dirty air, in which case they would have a hard time convincing a jury that their proper course was higher than it had been. Sounds like they cocked up long before.
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