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SortaAcat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SortaAcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rules and Insurance
    Posted: 08 Jul 16 at 2:46pm
So, this is a difficult one for me. I was on a friend's boat helming in the Round The Island Race last Saturday. It was a lovely day with sunshine and building breeze all day. We were having a great race and about 90 minutes from the finish short tacking off Ride Sands when we were hit by a port tack boat (we were on starboard). It was particularly hard/violent and a straight t-bone about 4 feet from the stern. 2 foot hole, lost most of the hardware on the port side and the wheel I was holding. Unfortunately I was quite badly injured (multiple head lacerations, broken shoulder, broken rib), necessitating being lifted off by the RNLI to go to hospital. They were wonderful.

Far more worryingly, the boat who hit us, did not stop. They did not make any attempt to render assistance or even ask if we were OK. In fact, they went on to finish the race and hand in their declaration!

While I was being triaged in hospital, my crew mates logged a protest. Their skipper did not admit culpability at that time and was subsequently disqualified by the PC. 

While the insurance companies figure out what to do, I am stuck with what to do myself. I love my sport and the fact that we are self policing. Is it a Rule 2, a Rule 69, obviously a Rule 10 & 14.

This event has shaken that belief to the very core. I have several months of recovery ahead of me and likely lost work and expenses. Thankfully a full recovery is likely. 

How does a Protest Committee ruling impact an insurance decision of culpability?

What would you do?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 16 at 3:19pm
Sorry to hear that, here's wishing you a full and swift recovery.

I can't help thinking you need better qualified advice than you'll get here. I'd start with the RYA.

As far as the RRS is concerned, my feeling is the system has done what its intended to do: it has identified a breach of RRS and penalised the boat found at fault.

From there on I fear its down to insurance companies and the legal system, who will, I imagine, pay a good deal of attention to the PC findings. But I could easily be wrong. I do think you need to ensure you get a written and signed copy of the full protest decision, with all their findings, including findings of fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 16 at 10:17pm
The RYA is the place to go for sailing legal advice, as Jim says. They are experts, we are not!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 16 at 10:19pm
Oh, and wishing you well for a full recovery. Sounds like a horrible experience all round, especially with the slap in the face of the other boat not stopping.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 16 at 10:34am
I wouldn't lose faith with sailing or fellow sailors, this is by far the worst event I have heard about.
Get well and get back on water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Van Mentz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 16 at 1:46pm
Whilst there is serious racing at the front of the RTI Race it would be quite wrong to think that this extends to any great depth in the overall fleet. Large numbers take part for the jolly and the last time they might have raced would have been last year's RTI at best. 

Therefore many have only a sketchy knowledge of the rules, boat handling in general, or how their own boat handles when pushed. Quite possibly the crew of the boat that hit you were so discombobulated by the horror of what they had done that they didn't know what to do next, how to render assistance quite beyond them. Probably no understanding of the significance of signing off and rather hoped the whole incident would go away. For the skipper not to admit wrong was a mistake. 

Of course none of this is a comfort to you but you should try not to let the incident affect your love of our wonderful sport.

In my experience your insurance company will use the findings of the protest committee as one source of evidence of culpability, they will ask the opinion of witnesses if they exist and use what evidence they gather to persuade the perpetrator's insurance company to eventually reimburse them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 16 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by SortaAcat

So, this is a difficult one for me. I was on a friend's boat helming in the Round The Island Race last Saturday. It was a lovely day with sunshine and building breeze all day. We were having a great race and about 90 minutes from the finish short tacking off Ride Sands when we were hit by a port tack boat (we were on starboard). It was particularly hard/violent and a straight t-bone about 4 feet from the stern. 2 foot hole, lost most of the hardware on the port side and the wheel I was holding. Unfortunately I was quite badly injured (multiple head lacerations, broken shoulder, broken rib), necessitating being lifted off by the RNLI to go to hospital. They were wonderful.

Far more worryingly, the boat who hit us, did not stop. They did not make any attempt to render assistance or even ask if we were OK. In fact, they went on to finish the race and hand in their declaration!

While I was being triaged in hospital, my crew mates logged a protest. Their skipper did not admit culpability at that time and was subsequently disqualified by the PC. 

While the insurance companies figure out what to do, I am stuck with what to do myself. I love my sport and the fact that we are self policing. Is it a Rule 2, a Rule 69, obviously a Rule 10 & 14.

This event has shaken that belief to the very core. I have several months of recovery ahead of me and likely lost work and expenses. Thankfully a full recovery is likely. 

How does a Protest Committee ruling impact an insurance decision of culpability?

What would you do?

Did the PC DSQ or DNE the other boat? 
 

In terms of damages: RYA prescription:

Damages

  1. Any issue of liability or claim for damages arising from an incident while a boat is bound by The Racing Rules of Sailing shall be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts and not considered by a protest committee.

  2. A boat that takes a penalty or retires does not thereby admit liability for damages or that she has broken a rule. 


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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 16 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by SortaAcat

So, this is a difficult one for me. I was on a friend's boat helming in the Round The Island Race last Saturday. It was a lovely day with sunshine and building breeze all day. We were having a great race and about 90 minutes from the finish short tacking off Ride Sands when we were hit by a port tack boat (we were on starboard). It was particularly hard/violent and a straight t-bone about 4 feet from the stern. 2 foot hole, lost most of the hardware on the port side and the wheel I was holding. Unfortunately I was quite badly injured (multiple head lacerations, broken shoulder, broken rib), necessitating being lifted off by the RNLI to go to hospital. They were wonderful.

Far more worryingly, the boat who hit us, did not stop. They did not make any attempt to render assistance or even ask if we were OK. In fact, they went on to finish the race and hand in their declaration!

While I was being triaged in hospital, my crew mates logged a protest. Their skipper did not admit culpability at that time and was subsequently disqualified by the PC. 

While the insurance companies figure out what to do, I am stuck with what to do myself. I love my sport and the fact that we are self policing. Is it a Rule 2, a Rule 69, obviously a Rule 10 & 14.

This event has shaken that belief to the very core. I have several months of recovery ahead of me and likely lost work and expenses. Thankfully a full recovery is likely. 

How does a Protest Committee ruling impact an insurance decision of culpability?

What would you do?
Did the PC DSQ or DNE the other boat? 
Form a liability point of view, more importantly, did the protest committee conclude that your boat broke, or did not break rule 14?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 17 at 1:16pm
we have just ben through a long winded insurance process during a race. 
from one side a simple port starboard from the other failing to keep clear same tack.
There was no protest (although both boats shouted protest) they were both dropped, one boat did turns but admitted no liability.
the basic rule is that in insurance costs the two insurance companies will use whatever leverage they have, a protest result might have some bearing on the result, as do colregs. the simple matter is that liability is down to who has better solicitors, more evidence, more witnesses.
the out come of ours? the claim was split roughly 80/20 (in favour of same tack) basically my version V's their's.
Was interesting that quite a big claim the rrs were relevant but not the 'b' all ...

Cheers you

only me from over the sea......
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