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Double Hander for Father / Son combo

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Doctor D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 7:49am
... or nine!

Still looking and fairly open to grad, miracle. I've now added firefly to the list of possibilities. Unfortunately the main criteria to get on to this list seems to be that there's very little ever on the market!  It has been quiet as you'd expect over the winter. I'm hoping something comes up soon. 

Anything else to put on the list?


Edited by Doctor D - 19 Feb 17 at 7:49am
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Neal_g View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 10:09am
There is a good quality miracle on ebay at the minute full road trailer sails and cover. It is wood though. 3849 so not too old.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChichesterHiss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 1:35pm
Firefly is good option with a stick insect crew.

Any reason why RS Feva or RS 200 is not on the short list? 
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Doctor D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 4:04pm
Small pond which doesn't really suit asymmetric kites. Also, Feva is really a yoof boat and I'm a bit long in the tooth!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote woodham78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 7:17pm
I bought a Grad (2863) last summer for myself and my 9 year old son to muck about in. I absolutely love it - best thing I did. Sailed it regularly with him, coaxed my 14 yr old daughter out a few times too. Am now sailing every other week with an adult crew (we're probably a bit heavy with us both on board, but she still goes really well in a breeze). I have recently started sailing her single handed too, which has been a blast. She's old, fairly tatty, could do with a new set of sails, but puts a smile on all faces. Only set me back 400. There's a tidier looking one, with an old and also a new rules main (there's three types if you do go for a Grad), up for 350 on the Graduate owners facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1563829960543739/
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Doctor D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 17 at 11:26pm
That one just looks a bit tatty for me and too far away to go and have a look to see..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 4:20pm
With the risk of being controversial, how about an Enterprise? I got one to sail with my pre-teenage daughters, and it works fine. Not too much complexity (no kite), and roomy enough, but also speedy enough to sail in light winds. Plus the added bonus that our club uses one in the 12hr Southport, which my kids are very keen to have a go at.

There seems a steady supply of decent Ents for not too much money on eBay, too.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 4:25pm
Ent's a nice boat. Can be a bit of a handful in a blow without some weight (22 stone is supposed to be optimum) but you won't be racing with him in a real blow will you?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChichesterHiss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Doctor D

Small pond which doesn't really suit asymmetric kites. Also, Feva is really a yoof boat and I'm a bit long in the tooth!



Ahhhh Yes. I was trying to think of boats that favored a lightweight all up crew because of your stick insect.  But I understand the added requirement of enough room for ahem "long in the tooth" joints to stretch themselves.
I would not rule out asymmetric due to size of puddle. They dont necessarily take up more pond room than other boats.  I mention this because an asymmetric kite is a lot easier for the stick insect (and for long in the molars Dad) to handle than a traditional spinnaker.  The advantage of the third sail designs is that they can be reasonably fast and exciting downwind (so the insect doesnt get bored) but they are not overpowered for a lighter crew upwind.
The simple math is that a sailing dinghy needs more sail area when it is sailing away from the wind than when it is is sailing towards it.  So the 2 sail dinghy is always a bit of a compromise.  They are either a bit overpowered upwind, or a bit underpowered downwind, or possibly both.  

That said,  the suggestions of Firefly, Graduate and Enterprise are all well proven 2 sail designs that parent and offspring have sailed for decades. We sailed Graduates at school on the river Nene, so many decades ago that my recollections are a bit indistinct. I do recall that with two 16 year old stick insects we were a bit over powered upwind when the breeze picked up.  The Firefly has had a massive resurgence in the last 5 -10 years and we see lots of couples sailing them. It has been made a lot easier for dad since they raised the boom height, giving noticeably more room to duck under the boom without hurting the very nice "feel" that Fireflies have always had.  The more modern fibreglass boats are well laid out. Its smaller than Ent and Graduate. The Enterprise is also a very fine boat. There were thousands in my yoof.

I confess that once you have tasted asyms, its hard to go back. My brother and I split time with a rather well worn 2000 (formerly Laser 2000) that we use to race with either the wife or the offspring. For our serious racing we do other things but the 2000 has been brilliant fun as a family racer. I would be the first to admit that there are better boats out there...but its tough and it does the job. We dont treat it well and it has a few dents but its held up well. Its mildly underpowered upwind which suits my  wife. It has just enough ooomph downwind to keep me from falling asleep. We sail on a narrow tidal estuary so.....pond size is not a problem. Certainly not trying to convince you to get a 2000, but if there are assyms in your local fleets, do not rule them out.


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Kev M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 17 at 9:01am
Rather than start another very similar thread I thought I'd tag on the back but of this one if that's okay with the OP. Very similar requirements but a younger, lighter crew (5yo). I'm thinking a firefly might be a bit wobbly with such a rounded hull shape so something a bit more boxy/chined might be better.

What is there with suitably light sheet loads that my daughter can do something other than be ballast? I think a Mirror is going to be too small as I'm 6'1" and the wrong side of 16st. But is moving up to a miracle too big for her? Would a Grad be too big for a 5yo? What else is there? I saw a Heron on Facebook the other day and wondered if that might be a good choice? Don't want to spend much more than 500 as it would involve selling my single hander to fund it and I won't be pleased if I do that and then my daughter doesn't like sailing.

I suppose it doesn't even need to be a racing class, something for us to cruise about in Swallows and Amazons style would do for a start.

Cheers,
Kev
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