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Is your boat part of the Zombie apocalypse?

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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 6:19pm
Your scorched earth approach is quite sweet I've decided, if rather naive.

People naturally develop an emotional as well as financial investment in the boats they sail, usually after a fair bit of trial and error to find what suits them and where they chose to sail.

In one way or another, all of those on your list have passed the test of time. There is a loyal core of enthusiasts, a class association and a variety of boat quality out there ranging from unsellable to worth a decent chunk on Apollo Duck.

Sometimes the builder or rights owner loses interest; fair enough, their business objectives may change. But that does not mean that no one can make money from that design.

From say Hartley's point of view, taking on an orphan boat can make business sense; there will be some in the class loyal who will buy a new ship, particularly if it's a bit sexed up (easier to justify the spend to the other-half). They sell the old one and hence the class grows. Works for everyone.

Contrast trying to break something new into the market. Full of business risk. No loyal fans. No class association infrastructure. Hence the difficulties of the Alto and Icon, no matter how good the design might be. In the old business cliche, they are prospecting for customers (looking for a seam of gold), Hartley's revised Supasofa is mining (extracting the gold that you know is there).

Hence, much as you might hate it, they are not Zombies, but they might be orphans who have found a new home and improved future.

This is the real world, where abusing orphans is never a vote-winner.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 7:56pm
The key point is , people choose, this spoils iGRF's future vision, he will always be let down.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 8:11pm
People don't 'choose' they get 'advised' 'cajoled' and in some cases 'forced' (we only sail <insert zombie class> at this club) and thus the self interest is perpetuated and the sport remains 95% moribund.

This forum is a classic example, most here are part of the 'zombie apocalypse', dead, but refusing to lie down, would rather go to the grave taking the entire sport with you than permit something new to go forward, can I remember the number of times I've used the term Luddite?

Even when presented with the enlightened views of a potential sailing genius such as I, you remain closed minded, it is what it is and was ever thus, dinghy sailors remain as they always have been, but it's fun trying to awaken the dead.

Edited by iGRF - 01 Apr 16 at 8:12pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 9:53pm
Most of the classes  today will still be in existence at the end of the century, the kids out sailing with parents/grand parents, will look back with nostalgia on those days and buy that boat, you only have to look at prices of cars and bikes from 60's, 70's and 80's etc, it is self perpetuating.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 1:32pm
Err... where's the international moth and 14 on that list?? 2 classes dating from 1928 must be too old to be any good - quick, someone design new versions and then all we need to do is stop the luddites from promoting those out of date designs and preventing the sport from moving forward...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 2:45pm
Hi Graham
Isnt it better to have a boat that has revised it self than one that has never got going like the two of your current fleet. Or one that had a difficult birth.
You cannot blame PY commitee for all the troubles of the new boats you seem to be in favour of somehow they are not getting the marketing correct or the concept in the first place.
After all Mega Zombies Rule.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 3:57pm
Well I entirely blame the PY group for the Icon death blow when it was struggling twixt suppliers, as to the Asbo, that is six of one half a dozen of the other, it also is a victim of the general trend away from crewed boats, I'm a classic example what with death, illness and injury forcing me into single handed sailing something I didn't really come into the sport to take up, given it's nature of being a poor replacement to the real deal of ultimate single hander racing on raceboards.

I will however grudgingly admit some great moments and further enjoyment in the recent learning curves of getting to grips with handling these infernal ruddered things alone with no-one to swear at and blame, but the perfect being that has been silly enough to place himself in that position (Of being less than perfect).

But other than a few examples I still stand by the zombie thing, our case isn't exactly helped by some of the garbage we're expected to deal with, but at least I now know enough to spot the potential pitfalls and can nearly judge a not bad boat by looking at it first, something I couldn't have done a couple of years back.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 4:22pm
I make it 188 Classes on my 1964 PY list, 105 classes on the 2016 list, only 26 classes appear on both.

They are:
420
505
Albacore
British Moth
Cadet
Cherub
Enterprise
Finn
Fireball
Firefly
Flying Fifteen
Graduate
Hornet
Int 14
Int Canoe
Int Moth
Javelin
Kestrel
Merlin-Rocket
National 12
National 18
OK
Osprey
Scorpion
Snipe
Solo
Wayfarer


Edited by JimC - 08 Apr 16 at 4:24pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by JimC

I make it 188 Classes on my 1964 PY list, 105 classes on the 2016 list, only 26 classes appear on both.

They are:
420
505
Albacore
British Moth
Cadet
Cherub
Enterprise
Finn
Fireball
Firefly
Flying Fifteen
Graduate
Hornet
Int 14
Int Canoe
Int Moth
Javelin
Kestrel
Merlin-Rocket
National 12
National 18
OK
Osprey
Scorpion
Snipe
Solo
Wayfarer

With the possible grudging exception of the following they are all Zombie Classes and should receive some sort of compulsory extinction order, cease and desist, polluting not only the Nations Waters, but young minds.

Cherub
Int14
Int Canoe
Int Moth
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Noah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 5:07pm
You forget, Graeme, that the route into dinghy sailing for many - me included - is to initially buy used. That way the financial exposure is limited if it doesn't work out. I CHOSE what to buy following a long period of analysis and thought. No-one cajoled or forced me into anything.

Why pick the four on your list for salvation? They're not exactly mainstream, all with limited numbers and mostly damn difficult to sail. And you have previous for asking for kit that anyone off the street can sail to 100% of its potential within 5 minutes of stepping aboard, which none of these four can claim.


Edited by Noah - 08 Apr 16 at 5:08pm
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