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Up or Down Dagger/Centreboard when & where.

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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 4:45pm
So long since ago us proper sailors that stand up and hold the boom, worked out there are only two positions that work, either all the way down or all the way up and don't lift the plate downwind unless you're planing for all manner of reasons I won't bore you with now, but I'm fast coming to the conclusion that boats actually work the same and pulling the plate up in light weather like you see all the laser mackerel sailors do, does't actually achieve anything positive and in fact I'm wondering if the really good guys leave it down, on the downhill stretch if they're sailing by the lee.

So I'm interested to re open the discussion as to when and where you lift it and wether or not the contrary has actually been tested of late.

I accept the kick it back a bit if the rig is raked up wind in a hooligan, but offwind at what point does it pay to lift it an or leave it down according to current thinking?

Edited by iGRF - 15 Mar 16 at 4:46pm
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 5:29pm
I'll bite.

It's essential to rake the plate back to round 45 degrees in a one-sail reach in the 100; it makes the boat so much easier to handle. You also need to sit as far back as possible, unlike when the kite is up, or you will nosedive. Them's the empirical facts, to blazes with any theoretical arguments.

Also, plate-up even further when hanging about between races in a breeze, is vital too. Otherwise it has a mind of its own and its impossible to relax and enjoy that well-earned choccie bar.

In the 200, in the light and soak mode, some reckon having the plate mostly up helps slide to leeward more. I'm yet to be convinced the resulting wobbliness and lee-helm compensating rudder use are not too high a price to pay.

Gybing a laser in a blow with the plate fully down is seriously tempting fate. I also pull it up a few inches upwind if it's a mega-gusty, dogs-off-chains day. Half up on a reach makes the thing far easier to handle on a reach too. You notice it more in a Laser thanks to the tiny, raked back rudder, but same actually applies in most instances I'd say, but a big rudder can mask the fact.

What every boat needs is something to stop the plate disappearing if the boat inverts in a capsize.

Swapping between boats, it's easy to omit adjusting the thing properly, at which point I wonder why the boat feels 'orrrible, before figuring it out. So yes, I keep testing the theory, albeit accidentally
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 6:00pm
So what about marginal planing, on a run, in a una rig, like the Laser?

Interesting thing about hanging about between races in a breeze with the plate up..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So what about marginal planing, on a run, in a una rig, like the Laser?

Interesting thing about hanging about between races in a breeze with the plate up..

Capsizing on a run from having the plate up is slower than having it half down and staying upright; if it gets unduly wobbly, mine gets slid down a bit. On flat water, why suffer the resistance and wetted surface area if you don't need it?

in waves, I guess the perfect place to have the board is about like this:
 


Edited by fab100 - 15 Mar 16 at 6:25pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 6:49pm
That's interesting, exactly how I do it, but with the plate all the way down rather than half up half down, probably in not so much wind, logic being if the boats going at an angle and there's surf, you need the drive off the plate to get over the hump if it's marginal, nice to have it confirmed by an expert like that guy, obviously the heavier you are the longer you can leave the plate down I guess, although it looks quite high up in some of those shots yet there is still a fair bit underneath.

I also wonder crank it back a couple of notches wind strength if they use the foiling 'lifting action of the plate to help un weight and get the boat over the hump like we do with boards. The more I go into this and the better I end up becoming, the more similarities I'm finding where I thought none existed, I should watch more videos like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 7:27pm
My take on it is that in the old days when lasers and such boats sailed straight downwind with no sailing angles and bye the lee, they used to raise the board a lot which worked beacuse the weted are was reduced. Now as they don't you need much more board. This is both beacuse on the broad reaching angle you need it, but also on the bye the lee you need it. If you have ever been sailing bye the lee and the board has momentarily broken free of the water you instantaneously get dumped and at such a rate. So yes, you need quite a lot of board down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 7:37pm
If the board is counteracting the sideways force of the sail, then as you stop being close hauled, the amount of sideways force lessens and the smaller your board needs to be. RYA level 1.

I'm sure all you maths wizzes can show me that boats don't work like that at all, but over 40 years of experience has shown me that I can be having a crappy run where people are crapping all over me, and when I go to bung the board down to go upwind again, I find I hadn't lifted the damn thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 7:40pm
Good, good to read I'm on the right track with it, thanks all.
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