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Wife experience helm & Husband 95kg crew

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 7:42pm
It's like one of those horror movies watching what goes on here, like loads of arms coming up from the pits of hell trying to drag our heroes down , to ride the river styx in some hell craft.

Never mind the fact they've been sailing an assy, no let's recommend our symmetric crap with it's poles and its useless can't beat a balloon downwind kite..designed alongside Noah's creation.

Edited by iGRF - 14 Mar 16 at 7:47pm
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 8:08pm
Graeme stop being a dick, the original post stated that they found a Xenon overpowered in a F5, therefore why suggest boats that would also be a challenge in those conditions. The dumbass saying RS400, oh yeah because that's going to be so much easier in a F5 than a Xenon. Some of you guys really need to realise the damage you do to the sport when you encourage less experienced people into your favourite boats. Some will follow your advice swim lots and give up on the sport.

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable. Also if you are 10kg over the recommended national champion weight for a given class, it won't matter a jot for club sailing.

So, to the original poster, ignore most of the guff spouted on this forum and just have a go in whatever you have a local fleet of, you'll get far more enjoyment out of this sport if you do.

Edited by craiggo - 14 Mar 16 at 8:09pm
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 8:46pm
I would have thought a 2000 would fit the bill very nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 9:16pm
I'd tend to agree if they have a reasonable local fleet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by craiggo

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable.

Trouble is mate, that isn't true either, its just another myth people like to peddle. Usually people who are desperately struggling to keep a local fleet in being, which is often very hard indeed.

But you're right, we should have explored the overpowered in F5 thing a bit more. Because it doesn't matter what boat you sail (well within reason), you are going to be well overpowered in a F5 because that's the way the wind works.. Well unless you have tiny sails up. But with suitable sailing technique and boat setup its all manageable.

So (to the OP) we need to explore why you had trouble with the Xenon in a F5. I've sailed the Xenon a bit and I think it is a bit of a brute in breeze because it hasn't got the most dynamic of rigs. And I guess I'm guilty of assuming that was the issue.

So the first question, I suppose, is, have you sailed other boats in F5 and found them manageable. We need to find out whether it was the boat or technique that was making things difficult for you, or maybe a bit of both.

Then we need to know what sort of boat you two want to sail. The RS400 is kinda like a more sophisticated Xenon, and so that was my first thought, although I have grave doubts about the mainsheet loads. They do fit a forward hand your size though, I know because I is...

Now the Lark and the other older boats have pole kites. You don't want to buy a pole kite boat without being very sure that's what you want, based on decent experience sailing with them. They have vocal adherents on here but I wouldn't go back to sailing with one regularly, and I was brought up with them and very suspicious of the new sprit kites when they came out.

Similarly other suggestions are trapeze boats. Well, that may be fine, but again is it what you want to do. If it is that's fine, but again you want to be sure before you shell out the cash.

And a lot of this is going to depend on where you sail.

The real arguments for sailing a boat that's vaguely popular locally are two fold. The first is that the boat will probably be reasonably suited for the local conditions, so you don't get landed with a boat that will never be nice to sail where you are. The second is that you can, assuming they're a reasonably friendly bunch, get tips and tricks on how to handle the boat and maybe lessons from the class enthusiasts in technique and the like. And don't underestimate this: it can be very valuable. But it ain't going to compensate for not wanting to go sailing because the boat is a horrible lump that feels like navigating a brick, or conversely because its a mad flyer that catapults over the horizon without you being able to control it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonoandnic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:04pm
Evening 

My wife and I really enjoy reading your posts, very funny..... I see you are just down the road in Hythe..what would recommend! 

Even though the Xenon was slightly over powered, we only capsize her 1/2 dozen times in 3 years...my wife has been sailing for over 20 years and competed at national level in several different dinghies. We competed a the 'Xenon Nationals' last year and on the Saturday it was a F5-6 and we were top after 4 races but the wind dropped to a F1-2 on the Sunday and came 3rd overall (14 boats attended) I have been sailing/racing now for 2 years so perhaps are underestimating how good we are....I think we just want a better dinghy than a Xenon 

Jon 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonoandnic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:13pm
I think you are right about being a brute, we were great up wind no one could get near us with my weight hiking hard....just when that massive kite goes up we struggled with big wind shifts....and gybing in for F5-6 was touch and go.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:15pm
There was a Xenon fleet at the late lamented Bewl Valley. Most of them have gone to Bough Beech. If you are in that area, there are several fast 2000s at BBSC which would give you good competition in that class if you want to stick with asymetric, but they don't prosper in light airs on handicap. If pole kiting, there are also a couple of very fast Scorpions there which do well on handicap in most winds. Or kiteless: an Albacore, another a great all-rounder.

Edited by NickM - 14 Mar 16 at 10:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:43pm
There used to be lots of top Albacores helmed by women with male crews with similar weights. The Simmonds at South Cerney for instance. Well worth a look.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by Jonoandnic

Evening 

My wife and I really enjoy reading your posts, very funny..... I see you are just down the road in Hythe..what would recommend! 

Even though the Xenon was slightly over powered, we only capsize her 1/2 dozen times in 3 years...my wife has been sailing for over 20 years and competed at national level in several different dinghies. We competed a the 'Xenon Nationals' last year and on the Saturday it was a F5-6 and we were top after 4 races but the wind dropped to a F1-2 on the Sunday and came 3rd overall (14 boats attended) I have been sailing/racing now for 2 years so perhaps are underestimating how good we are....I think we just want a better dinghy than a Xenon 

Jon
The key bit of advice here is, whatever you do, treat any advice from iGRF, our resident troll, windsurfing-genius but dinghy-sailor-impersonating-a-petulant-opinionated-adolescent very very carefully.

Injection moulded boats like the Xenon are far from ideal in many ways, to be blunt. You are right to move on.

I concur with others that it is worth a bit of compromising to get some class racing. 

Ideally, you want to have a decent try at sailing together is several classes before splashing the cash. 

And discuss between you what you want from your sailing; club handicap race fun, class racing, open-meeting touring, thrills and spills or less danger of swimming, close tactical racing or the joy of sailing something that just brings a smile to your faces. And agree a budget, which needs to fit the class. Buying a 1,000 Merlin is unlikely to prove a good-buy. Apollo-Duck is probably the best place to check what is on the market and going rates for a decent specimen. Factor in whether and when you will need to spend on post-purchase upgrades (sails, re-roping). A new trailer road-base is now 700+, so if you will be travelling, factor that into the value calculations, when a 2nd hand boat does or does not come with a trailer.

From what you've said, you have got a decent amount of power/weight to use, which would compromise the enjoyment of several classes, including Nat12, Lark (you'll nose-dive both in any decent breeze/waves) RS200 and Scorpion. Merlins are going great guns as a class but aint cheap and require lots of string pulling (and the knowledge to back that up). The 400 would be a good bet as a hiker with a kite. So would an Albacore (but it has no spiny at all, but boring for crew downwind)A 200 carries weight well, but the rig aint that big and it weighs only slightly less than an aircraft carrier. But I do agree with grf that life is too short to spend time in a GP14, with the possible exception of the worlds in Barbados in a few days time

Adding a trapeze for the crew opens up a different vista again. Steve Cockerill seems to be revitalising the Laser 4000 (1 trap +assymetric kite) and they can be bought cheaply. Bit heavy again. Fireball's continue to be strong but don't even think about a 470. I love Osprey's but its a big old beast if half the money of a 505. 

A trick worth thinking about is taking a sailing holiday at somewhere like Minorca sailing, where you can try all sorts of different boats - check their websites for what they have. For the rest, contact the class association and arrange a test sail. CA's are also a good source of wisdom as to things to look out for when buying a second-hand boat.

Have fun; exciting decisions to make


Clive






Edited by fab100 - 14 Mar 16 at 11:05pm
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