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3 boats length

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Henmch View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 4:44pm
can someone confirm that in a mixed fleet the three boats length is the length (x3!) of the first boat to arrive in the zone. Thinking here of an optimist v flying 15 situation!! And also that the length would mean for example in an RS400 length with bowsprit extended if they had it up whe entering zone, even if they took it down immediately on entering the zone. 

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 4:56pm
I've always understood it to be 3 of the leading boat's lengths, as the FF would arrive at 3 boat lengths well before the oppie is anywhere near the zone. However, I've heard people argue it the other way, including a coach assessor.
As for the other, if, and it would have to be terribly light winds, the 400 pulled the sprit in and actually left the zone he formed with the sprit out, he would be in the same position as anyone leaving the zone. However, if he just gets shorter in the zone he created, then there is no problem.
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Roger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 5:10pm

The answer is in the definitions


Zone

The area around a mark within a distance of three hull lengths of the boat nearer to it. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is in the zone

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 5:22pm
There's a new Q&A to clarify
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingQA2016.001B011-[19887].pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I've always understood it to be 3 of the leading boat's lengths, as the FF would arrive at 3 boat lengths well before the oppie is anywhere near the zone. However, I've heard people argue it the other way, including a coach assessor.
As for the other, if, and it would have to be terribly light winds, the 400 pulled the sprit in and actually left the zone he formed with the sprit out, he would be in the same position as anyone leaving the zone. However, if he just gets shorter in the zone he created, then there is no problem.

I think the sprit withdrawal and boat getting shorter is probably why the rule refers to hull lengths and hull entering the zone.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by sargesail

I think the sprit withdrawal and boat getting shorter is probably why the rule refers to hull lengths and hull entering the zone.

I'm sure you're correct. The trick in the detail is that bowsprits, spinnaker poles etc can (if the position can be said to be normal) make overlaps even though they don't affect the radius.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:15am
I was trying to figure that out last night. The rule must be the same as for finishing ( you can't pull the pole out specially) but when the pole breaks the 3 non-pole boat lengths circle, you are in the zone.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:39am
The rule is normal position, so if you routinely set the pole before the mark it may count. But it may be less of an issue now, because there are fewer boats where the pole both extends significantly beyond the bow and is set separately from the kite. I also have a feeling that whereas two boat lengths felt about right to get the pole out early for a fast hoist, three boat lengths kinda feels a bit soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 12:24pm
The definition of the zone and 18.1 do make this a potentially hazardous enterprise. Imagine 2 70 footers with a 20 footer in front of them.
Does the zone change once one of them gains an overlap on the 20 footer as they reach their one boat length or does the previous zone still apply?

When Rule 18 Applies
Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone. However, it does not apply
between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward,
between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for one but not both of them is to tack,
between a boat approaching a mark and one leaving it, or
if the mark is a continuing obstruction, in which case rule 19 applies.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 1:30pm
It means that the first 70 footer is in the zone relative to the second 70 footer 10 ft before it is in the zone relative to the 20 footer. But what situation to you envisage where this causes a problem?
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