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overlapped port boats at windward mark |
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piglet
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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Topic: overlapped port boats at windward mark Posted: 06 Aug 15 at 11:45pm |
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I'm sure this one must have been done, but I can't find a relavent thread and we couldn't resolve it from the RRS
2 overlapped port boats arrive at the zone of the windward mark. Mark is to be left to port. Can PL force PW the wrong side of the mark under R11 or Can PW call for room from PL under R18 Thanks |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 1:41am | ||||
No. They are overlapped at the zone. PWs proper course is to sail close to the mark. PL must give PW room to sail to the mark (rule 18.2( b )).
If PL wanted to take PW the wrong side she needed to do do before the first of tbem reacbed the zone. PW can call anything she likes :it makes no differeyto obligations or entitlements under the rules. |
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Presuming Ed
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 6:00am | ||||
To add: mark room when overlapped includes room to tack.
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piglet
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 8:45am | ||||
Thanks Brass & Ed, I was right and am owed at least 2 pints of finest.
I was outnumbered at the bar and there does seem to be common misconceptions on this scenario. BUT Reading the RRS didn't give us a priority of 18.2.b over 11. |
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Presuming Ed
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 3:13pm | ||||
From the top & for the bar.
If the forum software wasn't so absolutely carp, I would upload a diagram. But I can't. So, once the first boat enters the zone, 18 starts to apply. If you're both on the same tack and overlapped, and the mark isn't a continuing obstruction, then none of the exceptions apply - somebody is going to owe mark room to somebody else. Next:
18.2.b applies here: the outside boat owes inside mark room. It's this right to mark room that is the reason that leeward can't wipe windward off at the mark. What is mark room?
As the boats are overlapped, mark room in this case does include room for the inside boat to tack round the mark. Fetching (in rule terms) is pretty much what you think it is IRL.
However, you should note that the normal right of way rules aren't switched off. Windward still has to keep clear of leeward. The rights and obligations are: Windward has a right to mark room, but has to keep clear of leeward. Leeward has to give mark room, & still has to comply with 16.1
So if windward is sailing within her mark room, she gets exonerated for a breach of Section A (10,11,12) or 15 & 16. But she can't, for instance, force the outside boat wide so that she (inside) can make a better, tactical, rounding. Edited by Presuming Ed - 07 Aug 15 at 4:04pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Aug 15 at 4:31pm | ||||
Its all in the section A introduction. There's been a steady rewrite in recent years which to my mind makes things a lot more consistent, and that's a big part of it.
So section A, which is the fundamentals, windward/leeward, port starboard etc establish who has right of way. However a right of way boat may not be able to do everything it might want. B, C and D restrict what a ROW boat can do - in other words they override Part A rules to a limited extent in certain circumstances. Section B is basically about how you can't just ram into anyone you like if you have right of way. Section C is about having to let the inside boat get through. Section D is etc... |
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