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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Penalties
    Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 7:09pm
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ColH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Sam S

Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

Its *very* widely misused though.
Not in this context though (IMHO)
The great Elvstrom was by no means averse to sportsmanlike gamesmanship and making use of the rules to the limit.
But he was also renowned for scrupulous honesty on the racecourse which, really, is my point. 


I think there's a massive difference between using the agreed rules (under which youve implicitly agreed to compete) and, say, claiming a british knight of the realm has hit a mark when he hasn't...



Edited by ColH - 06 Jun 17 at 7:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Sam S

Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

Its *very* widely misused though.

Not in this context though (IMHO)

The great Elvstrom was by no means averse to sportsmanlike gamesmanship and making use of the rules to the limit.

But he was also renowned for scrupulous honesty on the racecourse which, really, is my point.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:35pm
I feel it depends on the context I.e, the type of competition:
Match racing is 'by definition' a one on one duel. ("I don't have a problem with it, the man was a pig" - sorry, watching Hunt For Red October too much!)
Team racing, similarly, is all about engineering the whole race to maximise your team's result. Without 'dirty tactics' it would be pretty meaningless and dull.
In club racing: it depends why you're there. If its to win a bottle of wine at any cost then be a feisty git ifyouwant. Or do it just for fun (the vast majority of us?) and make friends


Edited by ColH - 06 Jun 17 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Sam S

Using the rules to your advantage is IMHO 'bad sportsmanship'. 
Just because you can 'trip up' the other team to 'win' your race, does not mean that you won on an even footing. And that is my point.
If the race is about the skill of the team at sailing their boat the fastest, then we have a true representation of a team and boat.

Don't really see how using the RoW rules to control a competitor to your advantage is any different from hitting a tennis ball to your opponent's weaker side, or bowling the cricket ball in a fashion to try and get him/(her) out/not score runs. 

Boats in a sailing race interact at far greater angles than in any other form of racing. There aren't lanes, there isn't a motor racing racing line etc. 

Up to the last couple of ACs, the rules have evolved to reflect what happens on the water rather than vice versa. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Sam S

Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

Its *very* widely misused though. The great Elvstrom was by no means averse to sportsmanlike gamesmanship and making use of the rules to the limit.

Edited by JimC - 06 Jun 17 at 5:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 5:23pm
Love that quote: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."
Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 10:58am
The rules are remarkably simple ... it is the application of them that is more confusing.

At the level that they are playing pushing the limits is to be expected, but we see this in any professional sport be it rugby, cycling, tennis, motor racing etc.

As one esteemed international judge lectured us at our club; if you know the rules you can make them work for you.

The opposite to this is that if you don't know them you are at a distinct disadvantage.

Truth is that the rules that are most relevant to most Club and open Meeting sailors, are "port and starboard", "windward boat" and "mark room", without a knowledge of these, chaos would ensue.  If you don't know these you probably should not be on the race course.

Interestingly, apart from procedure, these are also the main areas of interaction on the LV race course, though things happen a bit faster, and I don't have a protest button in the cockpit of my Solo.

Something I find quite alien is the opportunity to speak to the PRO and ask what the course is ... I usually scribble it on the deck!

Somewhere between lies and truth lies the truth
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 17 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Rupert

Mr Spoons, you are quite right about levels of competitiveness, and even in the same race, I'll judge whether someone is out to win or learning how to race, and behave differently. But ensuring you are on starboard when you meet another boat is hardly pushing any boundaries.

Agreed, if it is someone I know is experienced and knows the rules then fair play (as I know most of my regular competitors will do the same to me in a heartbeat and we then have a chuckle about it afterwards).

If it is a less experienced person they get cut far more slack (and help/chat if needed).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 17 at 8:02pm
Sam S what kind of racing experience do you have?

Edited by ClubRacer - 05 Jun 17 at 8:21pm
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