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Windward Mark on Port |
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limey
Groupie Joined: 21 Dec 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 46 |
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Topic: Windward Mark on Port Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 12:21am |
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I am approaching the windward mark on port with a boat below and slightly ahead (though overlapped). As we enter the 3 boat length circle both port tack boats need to bear away to avoid a starboard tacker.
Does the leeward port tacker have to give me room to bear away to avoid the starboard tacked boat? Would the situation be the same if we were outside the 3 boat circle Thanks
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 3:59am | ||
Yes, if PL passes below S, PL must give PL room to pass between PL and S under rule 19.2( b ). See Case 11.
Mark-room under rule 18 is not the same as the room PL is required to give under rule 19.
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tgruitt
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 1:02pm | ||
Really? If I was that leeward boat slightly ahead I would never let the other port tacker have any room, that boat sailed itself in there, it should slow down and wait to clear any starboard tack boats.
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Needs to sail more...
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AlexM
Really should get out more Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 1:21pm | ||
Yep.... but taking that same view what happened if the Leeward boat wanted to tack because of the Starboard boat? Called water(room) on him and the response was sorry m8 you sailed there, bear away and go behind it (even if it was a big bear away)
Leeward boat decides the situation, if they decide to tack they can call it on the windward boat but if they duck it must leave room if the windward boat decides to duck also. Edited by AlexM - 24 Jul 15 at 1:22pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 2:01pm | ||
See you in the room Tom, but it won't be a long hearing!
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 2:57pm | ||
The key part here is ahead but overlapped. Overlapped means you can call for room to duck if you are the give way boat (but cannot then tack off you must duck if you call for room to duck). If W is clear astern then they have no right to call for room from L to duck the obstruction.
Edited by jeffers - 24 Jul 15 at 2:59pm |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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tgruitt
Really should get out more Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 5:45pm | ||
Don't come near me calling for room to duck then, you're not getting any!! |
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Needs to sail more...
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Andymac
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 8:20pm | ||
Make sure I'm not the Starboard boat when you (don't) do it!!! |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 11:46pm | ||
Firstly, the rule creating an entitlement to room to pass between the leeward boat and the starboard tack boat is rule 19. Unlike rule 20 (Room to tack), which creates an entitlement to hail for room to tack, rule 19 contains no express entitlement for any boat to hail. Much less does rule 19 impose any obligation (similar to the rule 20 obligation to tack as soon as possible) on the hailing boat following a hail. The leeward boat must give the overlapped windward boat room regardless of whether the windward boat hails or not, unless the leeward boat has been unable to [give room] from the time the overlap began (rule 19.2( b )). Note there is no three boat length zone in connection with rule 19: it applies when boats are at an obstruction. The inside boat might become overlapped quite late and close to the obstruction, and as long as the leeward boat is able to give room (which she will usually be able to do by bearing away, taking stern-kick into account etc), she must do so. If a leeward boat protested a windward boat for hailing for room, and then tacking away, the only grounds that might be available would be under rule 2 for a deceptive hail. I would be very careful about considering such a protest. For a start, I would tend to be quite sympathetic (depending on the facts) to a defence from the windward boat that she tacked because she was concerned that the leeward boat was not giving her the room to which she was entitled. She might or might not have protested the leeward boat for not giving room: that is entirely up to her I would not consider a hail that did nothing more than paraphrase rule 19, for example 'You must give me room there', or even 'room' or 'water' to be deceptive. Case 47 is the relevant case on deceptive hails
The requirement is that the boat must know she has no entitlement and make a conventional hail 'claiming' that entitlement. In the rule 19 room case, the windward boat would actually have an entitlement and Case 47 would not support finding a breach of rule 2. Even if the hail was made while still clear astern, I would be happy that if it was made in anticipation of an entitlement, it was OK. |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 5:22am | ||
Come on Tom, this is a pretty fundamental rule. If you don't give room, and the alternative is spearing an utterly innocent starboard tack boat then you're going to get a long sharp bow where it will quite spoil your day, and then a thankfully short protest meeting in which you'll get a DSQ while being unable to sit down. Edited by JimC - 25 Jul 15 at 5:26am |
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