New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Grafham D-Zero Demo Day
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Grafham D-Zero Demo Day

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 891011>
Author
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4568
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 14 at 6:23pm
The EPS is faster on the sea, I don't have anything like the problems with a Laser that I do on the Lake.

Like the Phantom unless it's very very light, is slower on the *sea, as the Aero will be upwind (but the off wind speed will more than compensate). The Aero 7 will probably end up being a right little bandit on the sea once all the inland muppet results screw up the stats, lets just make that my prediction shall we?

*By sea I mean proper sea, not estuary billiard tables or solent chop.



Edited by iGRF - 04 Jul 14 at 6:27pm
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 14 at 7:28pm
Nobody should EVER buy a boat based on current handicap .... why ?  1) It can be so wrong of course  2) it will probably then change in time anyway

You should only ever buy any boat becuase you actually like sailing it.... and if you don't really like sailing it ... ie "it must float your personal boat" then stand aside and save yourself a lot or money.  Gamble on a 'poachers handicap' lasting at your peril ...

There seems to be a hell of a lot of 'speed speculation' going on here without much 'on water' objective testing (ie real races !)....  LOL  Get a life or something there, or hydrofoils, a board or a cat.  Dinghies of this type can never be properly 'quick' - but that should not be the point.  'Nice' quite possibly on occasion if you are lucky but properly 'quick' is marketing press release copy stuff really......  It is all only relative in the end.

Sail your choice, whatever that may be, because you really really like it - and not for any other reason.  

Mike L.
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4568
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 14 at 8:25pm
A handicap should only change if there is a material alteration to the boat, a sailors handicap could probably change with practise, but having your handicap changed by the manipulation of others is fundamentally wrong and takes any 'enjoyment' of the results away.

Sure you can ignore them, sure you can smile and applaud the table full of chocolates on the bandits table at prize giving suppers, but and here's the rub, when you're trying to attract newcomers to this world, it is very hard to explain what's what, yes you can sail the boat you like, but only providing it's been around for years and lots of other people have sailed it before you..

It's bollox.

And lets see how you feel when the Blaze is 1010 which is nearer where it should be if your precious Great Lakes are to be believed

Edited by iGRF - 04 Jul 14 at 8:28pm
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 14 at 10:34am
The 'Great Lakes' type approach is where handicapping is heading and its influence has quite possibly already seen the core PN model modified at the margins - for example in 'faster' adjustments.  I think it very likely that its impact will continue to grow .... the 'official' system now  seems to be not 'leading' but 'following'.   Club results led databases are big ... but are they now producing what is really assumed or wanted ?

The 'formal' PN system still does not attempt to specifically weight PN numbers towards the potential of the craft.  It 'proudly' (naively ?) measures all races it can get its hands on from the clubs and simply in effect averages them.  Want a 'favorable' handicap ?  Buy into a class with lots and lots of cheap old boats that are clearly not as quick as they were when new and buy yourself  a new one of them with nice crisp sails etc ....    Any 'Fast' results are then heavily diluted by the 7/8ths of the class iceberg... that has its natural stomping ground around the back of many a local club handicap fleet and amongst locals who a happy with things the way they are and rarely travel to 'away' events etc...  Often sailed with that 10 year old main and by some who think 'maintenance' is limited to the annual removal of undergrowth sprouting up around the poor old hull.  Simple really ...

New classes are therefore a tough one for that system .... and yes I do know that.  I and the others don't race Icon for example because the experimental number is easy. 

The crude portsmouth approach constantly conspires to throw us back into the middle of any handcap fleet of course.  (premise = average boat example with average crew ability) Cynically we would need to encourage a lot of 'slow' results with perhaps with a goodly proportion of dinghy novices driving old boats around if we wanted the same 'dilution' effect that some classes naturally enjoy.  

The GL approach is very far from perfect BUT its declared aims are based on the assumption that the front of that fleet made up of all classes are competitive front quartile examples sailed by fully competive crfews.  Less dilution occurs as poor examples are proportionally fewer ...   They seek to handicap all based much more on boat potential.  Surely this is what many assume and want anyway from the PN system ?  

But a tough number is not why I or anyone else should race Icons or whatever in handicap....  Early adopters can be quite skilled in my experience and of course all the kit is nice and new.   Hence why GL should be a better approach for new classes.  It already assumes the boats are competitive for a start and the events do attract the capable (netting out much of that 'crew factor' stuff.)   ... Much less of an institutionalised, even if unintended, bias there.

If you want a GL number .. then pitch up at the events.  Many, perhaps a majority already, of the major handicap events are already using the GL numbers.  In the meantime just enjoy your choice, new or old ... but if 'new' and you want to race in handicap then like us you will have to accept a period of perhaps punitive handicaps under any reasonable system. 

Surely you would sail / race any boat primarily because you enjoy it ? 

Mike L.

PS - As an aside - my own club handicappers are not usually well known for offering favorable numbers to anyone, including myself.  However even they, allow Icon to continue to race at 990 rather than the '969' of the purist RYA approach.  But then they do have a good grasp of that systems strengths and weaknesses maybe and despite the fact that Burghfields own Icon results last year made up a high proportion of the return that produced '969' once in the RYA's hands !     
  

 
Back to Top
rodney View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 872
Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 14 at 4:12pm
On to Hythe and Saltwood this weekend
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
rodney@suntouched.co.uk
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 14 at 6:14pm
Oh no, does that mean that iGRF won't be coming to Thornbury SC Regatta? I was hoping he'd be able to show me how to sail in proper tide!
Back to Top
rodney View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 872
Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 14 at 6:41pm
lee bow   
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
rodney@suntouched.co.uk
Back to Top
Washy71 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 01 Jul 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 14 at 2:50pm
Well, given the poor weather last time and the huge amount of interest stirred up by three of us at GWSC placing orders, we've got a return of the lovely D Zero to Grafham!

http://www.grafham.org/wp-content/uploads/_pdfs/D-zero-club-promo.pdf
Back to Top
rodney View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 872
Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 14 at 1:10pm
I can confirm that the D-Zeros will return to Grafham Water SC for test sailing on 26th, 27th and 30th July. We are pleased to announce that, this time, the event is also open to non-members. If you are not a member of GWSC please contact me to book for a D-Zero test sail at Grafham.
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
rodney@suntouched.co.uk
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 14 at 1:25pm
Can I come look at my boat Rodney?  Wink

As it is I might have a pass to sail on the 26th or 27th so I may pop over regardless (I will email you once I have permission).
Paul
---------------------------
D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 891011>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz