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Pondicaps...ffs.

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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Apr 14 at 7:33pm
Well today I finally won a race on the lake after the times were corrected, I couldn't believe it it's the 2nd week running I'd finished ahead, i thought I'd done enough last week, but a couple of minutes isn't enough to clear a Laser.

Then this week 'have you got that fiver you promised us' came the call from the race team and they announced I'd done it, oh and that last weeks was wrong and I'd won that as well, elation however soon gave way when i saw what had happened.

They've been fiddling like the Sailjuice lot on that infernal Sailwave machine and it's spat out a handicap for me of 1062, and 1102 for the Laser, so I'm now none the wiser as to what would have been the result at 1024 v 1088, not that I should given I already think 1088 is too much for the Laser, but in my mind 1062 is over generous with mine, but against what and how, it's silly stupid confusing and very very annoying, I don't feel I've achieved anything, other than maybe bragging rights back at Hythe in the bar, right up until they hear what my bloody handicap now is...

You have to just ignore it all and enjoy the over the water result which was a good race anyway I guess.

Edited by iGRF - 30 Apr 14 at 7:36pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 14 at 9:18pm
True, personal handicaps are demotivating.

The only place for them is in a pursuit race where at least they can provide closer racing on the water.

Why don't your race team publish two sets of results: one using the personal h'caps and the one using the 'real' ones?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 14 at 9:28pm
I think you're over analysising it. Bottom line - well done, the spreadsheet monkey says you won... No need for feeling like it's a shallow victory!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 14 at 9:46pm
iGRF, just download a copy of sailwave, ask your race team for a copy of the .blw file and put the PYs back to standard numbers and it will spit out the results as you want.

Alternatively get your race team to set up an alias fleet in sailwave scored using the standard numbers and they can then print out both for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 6:21am
Even simpler - ask your RO for the elapsed times and number of laps and use a calculator (usually free on your phone) to do the simple sum
time in seconds x 1000 / handicap

If they didn't all do the same number of laps then
(time = race time in seconds/ laps completed x max laps completed)
so if one did 5 laps and another 6 then time/5 x 6

Too many people rely on computers and scoring software and call it a black art when they just don't know the simple maths behind it all.

Edited by patj - 01 May 14 at 6:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 8:49am
Pat, I think you'll find there is a much more complicated way of working out who won if there are different numbers of laps...

Grumph, you have been complaining for years about the Miracle handicap. All they have done is change the handicaps of other boats relative to it in order to reflect the performance of those boats on a tiny puddle. Isn't that what you wanted? It could be that they have over adjusted, and maybe not allowed for enough (lack of) crew skill factor, but what they are doing is what the RYA want clubs to do, isn't it?

It may be that they will cut your handicap back a little after a while once they see what results are coming in, and you appear to be too favoured now. You could even suggest they knock 10 points off. What they are doing is difficult with only a few returns, but at least they are trying to get fair racing.

Remember, a PY isn't a fixed thing - it isn't "how fast my boat goes", so sailing off a different one may well reflect the potential of the boat better than the one in the lists for that stretch of water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Rupert

Pat, I think you'll find there is a much more complicated way of working out who won if there are different numbers of laps...Grumph, you have been complaining for years about the Miracle handicap. All they have done is change the handicaps of other boats relative to it in order to reflect the performance of those boats on a tiny puddle. Isn't that what you wanted? It could be that they have over adjusted, and maybe not allowed for enough (lack of) crew skill factor, but what they are doing is what the RYA want clubs to do, isn't it? It may be that they will cut your handicap back a little after a while once they see what results are coming in, and you appear to be too favoured now. You could even suggest they knock 10 points off. What they are doing is difficult with only a few returns, but at least they are trying to get fair racing.Remember, a PY isn't a fixed thing - it isn't "how fast my boat goes", so sailing off a different one may well reflect the potential of the boat better than the one in the lists for that stretch of water.



Yes yes yes I know all that, precisely why I think the system is screwed, I'd rather they had just left it as it was when I first turned up, at least I could have a fixed measure as to my performance, 40 points on here, 10 points off there, that's no sport, exactly the reason to adopt a fixed measured system. I don't want my performance artificially assisted any more than I want it reduced, I'm trying to learn how to do this thing, how can I do that all the time they're shifting the bloody goal posts all over the place?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 10:12am
So you are advocating that your local club should not adjust the handicap?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

So you are advocating that your local club should not adjust the handicap?


I've said this all along, for this very reason, why put them in the position where they quite plainly piss off their membership, it might appear to help some whilst it irritates others.

What is required clearly is a fixed boat rating system and a volunteer handicap according to local skill/conditions applied, but the boat system must be accurate and maths based, not buffer on the end of a wet bit of string..

I'm happy that I'm not good enough to sail my boat to its handicap, so I keep trying harder with the hope that one day... But I'm not happy 'they' think oh that muppet needs a bit of help lets bung him up to 1062..

Edited by iGRF - 01 May 14 at 12:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 14 at 1:14pm
Maybe that isn't what they thought - maybe they thought that the boat is better on more open water, and that your skills are already equal to those you are racing against, so the handicap should be adjusted to suit the boat on that particular puddle so the person with the best race form on the day wins.

I quite agree about the problems of small clubs adjusting handicaps, by the way - there is always some grumpy bugger who will take it the wrong way... sailing clubs abound with them. Can't agree the answer is a measurement system, though - simply too many variables for it ever to be even half as accurate as a yardstick system. I'm looking forward to a time where we have enough returns to be able separate proper sailing from that stuff people do on the sea, which buggers up our nice small lake numbers...
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail
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