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2013 Rules

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2013 Rules
    Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 8:43am
Judging by the silence on this forum the 2013 rules seem not to be causingany major problems. AmI correct in this belief?

Gordon
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 9:25am
We had to change our SIs to remove the 2 boat length zone that we had (small lake). We now sail with the specified 3 boat length zone as SIs can't change this anymore. Other than that no issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 9:44am
We had a rules evening to discuss both the changes and rules in general. The changes don't appear to have affected everyday racing and how it occurs, particularly, but then I still get calls of Mast Abeam, and was told recently that Overtaking boat keeps clear. I doubt my club is alone in this, yet club racing still seems to carry on, unworried by changes from on high.I think most people, so long as they have a general idea of who needs to stay out of the way at a particular time and place, aren't too worried by the why of it, or exactly how much room they have to give/are entitled to, or exactly how many randomly guessed boatlengths they are from a mark.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I still get calls of Mast Abeam, and was told recently that Overtaking boat keeps clear. 
Always worth a try  Wink    'Stick to the good old rules, that's what I say...'

I doubt whether most people have much idea if they are two or three boat-lengths from the mark, and at least half the calls you get are from chancers anyway.  

I think common-sense is probably the better option - if the chap has no choice but to hit either you or the mark, give him room, otherwise not! That is not my fixed conviction, but rather offered for discussion - it doesn't, for example deal with hooligans who come in with double your speed and no rights but great need; Then again, what does deal with that situation satisfactorily if you don't want a bowsprit-sized hole in you or your boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 2:19pm
The trouble with common sense is that no one really knows what it is... on the whole its better to stick to the letter of the rules so that everyone should know exactly where they are.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

it doesn't, for example deal with hooligans who come in with double your speed and no rights but great need; Then again, what does deal with that situation satisfactorily if you don't want a bowsprit-sized hole in you or your boat?

Take action to avoid contact (and remind the protest committee that you are required to do so by rule 14 even if you are entitled to mark-room) but simultaneously hail "Protest" and if they don't take their turns then submit your protest form asap when you get ashore.

If no one protests them then aren't they just going to carry on being hooligans?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 10:49pm
Not easy without an unusually well-placed witness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 13 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by GML

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

I think common-sense is probably the better option - if the chap has no choice but to hit either you or the mark, give him room, otherwise not! That is not my fixed conviction, but rather offered for discussion - it doesn't, for example deal with hooligans who come in with double your speed and no rights but great need; Then again, what does deal with that situation satisfactorily if you don't want a bowsprit-sized hole in you or your boat?

Take action to avoid contact (and remind the protest committee that you are required to do so by rule 14 even if you are entitled to mark-room) but simultaneously hail "Protest" and if they don't take their turns then submit your protest form asap when you get ashore.

If no one protests them then aren't they just going to carry on being hooligans?
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Not easy without an unusually well-placed witness.
 
Rule 18.2( d ) is there specifically to help you and a protest committee out in this situation
(d) If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.
If you give your evidence that you were clear ahead at the zone, and the only other evidence is from the other boat, then, there will usually be reasonable doubt that the other boat obtained her overlap in time and you should expect to win the protest.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 13 at 9:44am
Rule 18.2 d is a fine example of where the rules and common sense are in perfect harmony. My personal view is that they are in harmony for the vast majority of the time. And logical almost all the time. It just happens that we have a sport where there are many ways in which boats interact, so it isn't surprising when sailors meet new situations are aren't sure of the exact rights and obligations, so revert to the "don't crash" default and get on with the race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Brass

If you give your evidence that you were clear ahead at the zone, and the only other evidence is from the other boat, then, there will usually be reasonable doubt that the other boat obtained her overlap in time and you should expect to win the protest.


I don't think its quite that simple in practice. If it was then you'd never get given room at any mark!

If there are no independent witnesses its a very brave protest committee that disqualifies a boat in a your word against theirs scenario. To establish reasonable doubt you need to find a hole in the other parties story and exploit it. This is why solicitors are good at protests!
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